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-   -   Boris Safonov real claims and german losses (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=33816)

Mirek Wawrzynski 11th May 2013 13:41

Re: Boris Safonov real claims and german losses
 
In 2011, I published a long article on the 151 Wing in Russia:

Brytyjczycy nad Murmańskiem - 151 RAF Wing w Rosji/ Brits over Murmansk - 151 Wing in Russia.

Article was published in the Militaria XX wieku No. 4 (43) 2011 pp. 4-15 there are 21 b&w photos and color profiles of two Hurricanes plus a very nice cover.

http://www.sklep.kagero.pl/43-milita...4-43-2011.html

http://kagero.eu/na-ladzie/115-milit...f-wing-wnrosji

Photos of Tim is published in it (p. 10), and how, have to be, just a slightly different angle. Safonov also is on it.

Regards,
mw

timothy 11th May 2013 14:21

Re: Boris Safonov real claims and german losses
 
How do I see photos, Mirek?

Or get back number??

= Tim

Oh, silly me - I HAVE that issue. And yes - a better photograph than my first one.

timothy 11th May 2013 14:47

Re: Boris Safonov real claims and german losses
 
1 Attachment(s)
And, of course, I flew GV-33 (the cover photo) off the Carrier.

http://www.2gvsap.org/video/151_0805.wmv

= Tim

GMichalski 11th May 2013 23:57

Re: Boris Safonov real claims and german losses
 
hi,
many thanks to add more interesting info...
now I'm looking at the number of russian claims and enemy casualties...

take a look:
http://www.net-film.ru/en/film-7763/
regards

Mirek Wawrzynski 14th May 2013 13:59

Re: Boris Safonov real claims and german losses
 
Quote:

many thanks to add more interesting info...
now I'm looking at the number of russian claims and enemy casualties...
If you do not read Russian you may have a small problem!

Second, overclaiming ratio on Soviet side (among top pilots/aces) on the Far North was average about 3-4 to 1. It means one in fact destroyed LW's plane to 3-4 claimed/credited victories on Russian side.

So it is interesting subject.

All the best
mw

GMichalski 15th May 2013 11:28

Re: Boris Safonov real claims and german losses
 
hi,
yes, you're right....

in this area some pilots of jg5 overclaimed a lot
sometimes more than 3 or 4 - 1 of Safonov
(Ehrler, Weissenberger, Müller, Dorr, Schuck...)
on the other hand i think that Safonov damaged
many planes that did not fall to the ground
regards

Mirek Wawrzynski 15th May 2013 16:24

Re: Boris Safonov real claims and german losses
 
Always is importann how you just difine a victory.
One man thougts about it as a total destroyed plane (at least >60 % of damage according LW's standards). Others are not so strictly (like me for example).

Next I have said average ratio 3-4 for 1 real loss. In some dules was almost 1 to 1 in others 6 or 7 to 0. All sides had exagerated their amount of victories, which is normal and standard in WW II.

Safonov had some victores, which were in fact "only" damaged planes of course. All German combat planes were 100 % metal one. I-16, MiG-3 or ŁaGG-3, or Hurricanes were not, as Ił-2, this is imprtant too.

mw

GMichalski 16th May 2013 10:52

Re: Boris Safonov real claims and german losses
 
totally agree
for me if it meets certain conditions is a credible pilot:

enemy had aircraft in the area, there was a combat, some were damaged and sometimes some fell to the ground...

regards


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