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-   -   AAF AT-7/C-45 loss - Greenland - 5 Jan 1943 (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=49679)

Leendert 8th November 2017 21:00

AAF AT-7/C-45 loss - Greenland - 5 Jan 1943
 
On the top of page 10 of https://media.defense.gov/2017/Jun/2...UETAUB2011.PDF) it says an AT-7/C-45 was lost in the rescue attempts of the crew of B-17 42-5088. This B-17 came down on 9 Nov 1942 while searching for C-53 42-15569. Latter a/c had crashed on 5 Nov. 1942.

Comparable story on http://www.historynet.com/seven-down-in-greenland.htm

I wonder who can identify the AT-7/C-45 of 5 Jan 1943 in Greenland?

Thanks for any info.

Regards,

Leendert

Alex Smart 9th November 2017 05:45

Re: AAF AT-7/C-45 loss - Greenland - 5 Jan 1943
 
Hello Leendert,
The report in the second link says that 5 men died, but those were the rescuers I think(?)
The 5 men on the C53b were never found.
The Cambridge American Cemetery Tablets of the Missing has them -
BUT
Their date of death is given as 30th November,1942(?).
They were -
Captain. Homer C. McDowell Jr - O-383628
2Lt. William L.Springer - O-790099
S/Sgt. Eugene L. Manahan - 16015496.
Cpl. William W. Everett Jr - 13043466.
Cpl. Thurman Johannessen - 18057650.
The a/c was with the 29Sqn of the 8th Ferry Group.
MACR 15896 has on Fold3, only two pages, the first with the number and the second has the names.
For the other accidents perhaps Craig at AAIR could supply copies of any accident reports on the a/c involved .

Alex

Leendert 9th November 2017 12:11

Re: AAF AT-7/C-45 loss - Greenland - 5 Jan 1943
 
Alex,

Thanks, but I'm specifically after the AT-7/C-45 of 5 Jan 1943.

No record on aviationarchaeology or accident-report.com, nor a MACR.

Regards,

Leendert

Alex Smart 9th November 2017 18:22

Re: AAF AT-7/C-45 loss - Greenland - 5 Jan 1943
 
Hello Leendert,
The only one that would fit is shown in the Joe Baugher list -
AT-7B
42-43480(MSN 4222)
W/O November 28, 1943 in fatal crash, Greenland ice cap.
To excess inventory list Narsarsuak, Greenland, December 1945.

The relevant part's are "W/O", "fatal crash" and "Narsarsuak, Greenland".

Alex

RSwank 9th November 2017 20:05

Re: AAF AT-7/C-45 loss - Greenland - 5 Jan 1943
 
Here are the details on 42-43480. I don't think that it is the correct plane.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=95798



Nothing on this page either:

http://www.warcovers.dk/greenland/crash_list.htm

Alex Smart 10th November 2017 02:22

Re: AAF AT-7/C-45 loss - Greenland - 5 Jan 1943
 
Thanks Roland,
The date is a year out I know, but it seems to be the only fatal C45/AT7 crash noted anywhere.
I just wonder if the take off and crash date was 1942 and a typo some years later when the typed report was made the 42 became 43 ?
Otherwise the crash would fit in the time frame.
Also the crew were MIA's and date of death is given as 28th November 1943. Surly it should be 28th November 1942 ? See Captain Elmer E. Slaten O-496293 1st Resque Squadron, in AMBC.
If we take the t/o date as 20th November 42, then a/c sighted date as 20th December 42, then resque/recovery team reaching the wreck on the 28th December 42. Then maybe the crew were recovered on the 5th January, 43 ?
Date of death almost a year+ 1 day.
Alex

Leendert 10th November 2017 14:07

Re: AAF AT-7/C-45 loss - Greenland - 5 Jan 1943
 
Thanks for suggestions.

42-43480 indeed not the AT-7/C-45 involved. See http://www.warcovers.dk/greenland/crash431128.jpg with official records.

Reason of flight (also) not for search efforts of the crashed B-17.

Regards,

Leendert

Leendert 10th November 2017 14:37

Re: AAF AT-7/C-45 loss - Greenland - 5 Jan 1943
 
Found this story on http://tailspinstales.blogspot.be/20...-when-you.html (see under "Know Where You're Going When You Volunteer") pointing to the second ski-equipped AT-7 sent to Greenland for the B-17 crew rescue efforts.
Pilot was Benjamin H. Shiffrin, then with the 103rd Observation Squadron, Fort Devens, MA, but he volunteered for the Greenland mission.

This all was in late Jan 1943, so after the apparent loss of a first AT-7/C-45 on 5 Jan 1943.

Regards,

Leendert

Alex Smart 10th November 2017 21:26

Re: AAF AT-7/C-45 loss - Greenland - 5 Jan 1943
 
Hello Leendert,
Re your post 7, that was my point in my earlier post. The official document was made in 1946, see date on document.
Hence my "possible train of events" to support 42-43480 as the a/c involved.
Otherwise there must have been a third a/c ?
Alex

RSwank 11th November 2017 02:32

Re: AAF AT-7/C-45 loss - Greenland - 5 Jan 1943
 
Found another version of the story:

https://issuu.com/cityofirving/docs/spencer-greenland

I wonder if the "Missing" 5 January AT-7 was actually a confused story that was generated by the recovery of the crew of the Barkley-Grow T8P-1. They turned up on 2 January 1943 after they went missing on 22 December 1942. (Their plane actually looks like a Beechcraft AT-7. )

Here is a little on the Barkley-Grow.

http://www.warcovers.dk/greenland/crash221242.htm

Leendert 11th November 2017 10:47

Re: AAF AT-7/C-45 loss - Greenland - 5 Jan 1943
 
Rolland,

Idea of confusing the story and fate of the Canadian lookalike with a possible AT-7 of 5 Jan 43 had crossed my mind as well.

One of the occupants (Capt. Moe) was USAAF, I believe.

Alex: report of 1946 clearly speaks of a crash on 28 Nov 1943 and not 5 Jan 1943.

Regards,

Leendert

RSwank 11th November 2017 16:02

Re: AAF AT-7/C-45 loss - Greenland - 5 Jan 1943
 
The navigator on the flight was probably Captain John G Moe, Jr., AAF. (Captain Moe, navigator AAF is mentioned in the link I gave).

I know he was a navigator, having received his wings in June, 1941.

There is a newspaper article, dated January 3, 1943 in the Philadelphia, Inquiry which states:

"Captain John G Moe Jr, 26, who recently was awarded a Distinguished Flying Cross for a "hazardous flight in a bombing plane from Washington to the Netherlands (East Indies) on an urgent and vital mission has been found after being reported missing on a recent flight his father, a justice of the peace, of 450 S Orange Street, Media (PA) said yesterday.

It looks like the Army informed his father on the same day (January 2) he was found.

Update: found another newspaper article which confirms this. It states that John G Moe had an harrowing experience in late 1942 when he was forced down in Greenland while searching for some missing flyers. He spent Christmas of that year in a rubber boat amid the ice flows of the northern Atlantic.

Leendert 15th November 2017 20:16

Re: AAF AT-7/C-45 loss - Greenland - 5 Jan 1943
 
I received word from Capt. Donald M. Taub, USCG (Retired) about the possible AT-7/C-45 loss on 5 January 1943.
He is the author of the article “The Greenland Ice Cap Rescue of B-17 PN9E” in which a/the 5 Jan 1943 accident was mentioned.

Capt. Taub’s source was information from one of Colonel Bernt Balchen’s personal notebooks. The notes however were very brief and it merely said that the aircraft was lost between BW-1 and BE-2.

I further read that Col Balchen (also) had a YC-64 Norseman (42-5044 called “Yellow Peril”) which reportedly was destroyed when a nearby C-87 transport (41-11704?) burned out, late 1942-early 1943. But I still have to dig deeper here for confirmation of this.

All in all, the possible loss of a C-45/AT-7 on/around 5 Jan 1943 stays elusive. Unless a mix up in Balchen's notebook with the Canadian lookalike is in play after all...

Regards,

Leendert

Alex Smart 15th November 2017 22:38

Re: AAF AT-7/C-45 loss - Greenland - 5 Jan 1943
 
Hello Leendert,
From the JB site -

41-11704 Consolidated C-87-CF Liberator Express
MSN 200. Conversion from B-24D. Condemned overseas Oct 1943

42-5044 (MSN 76) Was RCAF 3532; to USAAF November 3, 1941; Bolling, DC October 2, 1941; shipped by sea to Bluie West 8,
Søndre Strømfjord, Greenland November 7, 1941; assembled by Bernt Balchen, pioneer polar aviator, navigator, aircraft mechanical
engineer and military leader; test flown by Balchen who later flew it frequently to oversee the establishment of the USAAF polar
airfields in Greenland. Destroyed by fire in the winter of 1942-43, it had been parked near a fully fuelled C-87 and fuel truck,
the C-87 was set on fire by an overheated heater in a hangar; to excess inventory list Narsarssuak, Greenland Dec 1, 1945


Alex


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