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-   -   Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=28555)

Nikita Egorov 17th February 2012 08:20

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
 
Johannes,


Working with Stalingrad and Eastern front I noted that many German aces used to mix plane types that they claim. Some cases were rather ridiculous. I remember one day Gemans claimed several I-180s that turned out to be P-40s, La-5s and even one I-16. Barkhorn, for instance, in November-December 1942 claimed several P-40 with no P-40 presented on that area at all. The question was it really that Germans did not bother of the types or that is connected with other reasons?
Mixing the types of single-engine fighters such as Mig-3, Yak-1/7, Lagg-3 was a common practise among almost all...

Johannes 17th February 2012 08:58

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
 
Hi Nikita

Strange that JG52 and JG3 should claim so many mistaken P-40's when they were pre-dominately used in the far North. Answer is probably the Bf109's poor visibility. Also JG52 tended to standardise aircraft i.e La-5's and LaGG-3's became LaGG's, JG54 rounded there times off generally to the nearest five minutes.........just quirks I guess.

This is all assuming that the claims were not made up, and I believe Barkhorn was honest. Also we must not forget that the Luftwaffe pilots approach to combat was in at speed, attack, and away!

Kind Regards

Johannes

Nikita Egorov 17th February 2012 09:36

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
 
I can add here that anonymous Lagg can be also IL-2, I met several cases.

As regards to Barkhorn, nobody states that his claims were made up, in this occasions they were La-5s. But, how the experienced pilot (around 100 vic at that time) could mix them up. BTW, his wingman claimed P-40s as well.

elkondor 14th August 2013 18:03

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
 
Hi
I thank you for all the information. Right now I`m building a colection of bios. of Luftwaffe pilots in Office Power Point, with born cities and i came accross with Leopold Múnster, pilot that somebody requested information and I`m able to send.

Edward L. Hsiao 10th September 2013 23:24

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
 
Gentlemen,

I found Hauptmann Hans-Joachim Langer with 58 air victories and a holder of the German Cross In Gold. His units were JG-53,JG-51,and JG-7. He survived World War II.
Hans Reiff of JG-3 has 54 air victories by the middle of May 1944. All 54 victories were Soviet warplanes. Reiff was moved to Germany for defense against US bombers. I'm surprised that there was no recorded victories against the Western Allied warplanes for Reiff. He was KIA on Dec.2,1944.

Sincerely,

Edward L. Hsiao

Edward L. Hsiao 3rd October 2013 23:48

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
 
Gentlemen,

You can add Hans-Joachim Langer who was a Hauptmann and had about 58 victories. I think he was born in the 1920's.

Sincerely,

Edward L. Hsiao

Edward L. Hsiao 26th November 2014 00:00

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
 
Gentlemen,

The list of all the German pilots who scored in the 30's,40's,and 50's are pretty interesting to look at. Those who scored in the 50's were deserving of the Ritterkreuz.

Sincerely,

Edward L. Hsiao

Edward L. Hsiao 12th January 2015 09:24

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
 
Gentlemen,

I found something on Kracker Archives of Ernst-Dietrich Grumme. The air kill score of this Luftwaffe fighter ace was only 28. Sometimes that website contains plenty of errors.

Sincerely,

Edward L. Hsiao

Frank Olynyk 12th January 2015 12:01

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
 
Edward,

The recently published Luftwaffe Aces: Biographies and Victory Claims, Volume 2, by Mathews and Foreman, lists 52 victories for him.

Enjoy!

Frank.

Jim P. 13th January 2015 00:51

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
 
Johannes, I would be interested in comparing lists. I haven't worked on mine for a while, but I have some 2900 with 5+ claims to go with 70K+ claims. PM me.

In the meantime - for 49 - 40 claims I have (in 2 parts) -

Arnold, Heinz, Ofw., 49, JG 5, JG 7, DK?, MIA on 17-Apr-45. 7 w/Me262, O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Girbig, JG 5, Foreman/Harvey, Me262 Combat Diary; Boehme, JG 7
Koller, Heribert, Ofw., 49, JG 54, , , O.K.L. Fighter Claims; FB
Müller, August, Ofw., 49, JG 51, DKiG, KIA on 6-Apr-45. (Gustl? Gustav?), Aders/Held, JG 51
Stendel, Fritz, Hptm., 49, JG 51, JG 5, DKiG, , O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien/Bock; Aders/Held, JG 51
Toll, Günther, Ofw., 49, JG 2, JG 52, DKiG, WIA on 7-Jul-43 due to Luftkampf., O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien/Bock; Fast, JG 52, IV
Seidel, Georg, Ofw., 47, JG 51, DKiG, KIA on 6-Mar-43., O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien/Bock; Aders/Held, JG 51
Müller, Xaver, Ofw., 47, JG 54, DKiG, KIA on 27-Aug-43 by Flak., O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien/Bock; Scutts, JG 54; Barbas, Planes of the Luftwaffe Aces, II
Tangermann, Kurt, Ltn., 46, JG 54, JG 52, JG 7, DKiG?, 304 ff, O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Boehme, JG7, Foreman/Harvey, Me262 Combat Diary
Surau, Alfred, Ofw., 46, JG 3, DKiG, KIA 14-Oct-43., O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien/Bock; Prien, III./JG 3
Daspelgruber, Franz, Oblt., 46, JG 3, DKiG, Stkp. MIA on 16-Jul-43., O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien, IV./JG 3
Theimann, Wilhelm, Ofw., 45, JG 51, DKiG, MIA on 29-Jul-43., O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien/Bock; Aders/Held, JG 51
Vinzent, Otto, Oblt., 45, JG 54, DKiG, KIA on 4-Jan-44., O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien/Bock; Scutts, JG 54
Ratzlaff, Kurt, Ofw., 45, JG 52, DKiG, KIA on 29-Sep-42 after Luftkampf. FSA, shot in chute. (68 per Fast), O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien/Bock; Fast, JG 52, IV, p.77
Föhl, Heinz, Ltn., 45, JG 52, , Is this legit? No claims via docs yet., Fast, JG 52
Mai, Lothar, Ofw., 45, JG 51, DKiG, KIA on 27-Aug-43., O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Aders/Held, JG 51
Frese, Hans, Ltn., 44, JG 3, DKiG, Stfhr. KIA on 8-Mar-44 due to Luftkampf., O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien/Stemmer, II./JG 3; Prien/Stemmer, Stab und I./JG 3
Reinhardt, Hans-Günther, Fw., 44, JG 54, JG 1, DKiG, WIA on 8-Oct-43 due to Luftkampf with B-17s., O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien/Bock; Prien/Rodeike, JG 1 & 11, I
Quante, Richard, Fw., 44, JG 51, DKiG, KIA on 14-Aug-42 due to Luftkampf., O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien/Bock; Aders/Held, JG 51
Dettke, Alfred, Fw., 44, JG 54, DKiG, KIA on 5-Jan-43 due to Luftkampf., O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien/Bock
Stolte, Paul-August, Hptm., 43, JG 54, JG 1, JG 3, DKiG, KIA on 18-Oct-43., O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien/Bock; Prien/Stemmer, II./JG 3
Miksch, Alfred, Fw., 43, JG 3, JG 1, DKiG, KIA on 1-Dec-43 due to Luftkampf., O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien & Rodeike, JG 1 & 11
Decker, Otto, Oblt., 43, JG 52, DKiG, Stkp. KIA on 27-Aug-42 by Flak., O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien/Bock; Fast, JG 52, IV, p.73
Niese, Erhard, Oblt., 43, I(J)/LG 2, JG 77, JG 4, DKiG, Stkp. KIA on 18-Feb-45 in crash., O.K.L. Fighter Claims; Prien/Bock; Prien, JG 77, IV


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