Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories
 

Gentlemen,

All of your imputs and comments are much appreciated. I believe that this resolves the long-standing mystery about Jabs and his RK during 10.40 for 19 victories, and photos of his rudder at the time with 19 victory tabs.

My thanks to you alll,

Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories
 

It is quite misleading to equate the bars on a rudder with the officially confirmed total as has been pointed out here. As we all know the Luftwaffe confirmation prossess could take months or even years to complete. However pilots would have their rudder scores updated at the time of the claim. There are numerous examples which can be sited, the earliest I know of is Werner Mölders in Spain where he had 15 bars on the tail of his Bf 109 although only 14 were "official."

Tom

Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories
 

Hi all

Very interesting thread which I thought I would hijack.

In 1992 a Bf110 E-2 (CD+MV) coded M8+ZE of 6.(Z)/JG5 was recovered it was found to carry five victory markings on the tail, one RAF and four Russian. Unfortunately all were unreadable (I never got to see them first hand) but the last victory was dated 15.8.41.These victories belong to when the Bf110 belonged to Stab/ZG76 who were in Norway at the beginning of the Russian campaign in the Arctic Circle?

What I had from 1995

In early 1941, the I/ZG76 Gruppe returned to Germany from Norway, but 110’s of the 2 staffel stayed in Kirkenes with the Zestoyerkette of JG77. In May 1941 the III/ZG76 was disbanded, returning to Germany. Finally, in the Autumn the last Gruppe, the II/ZG76 was itself disbanded. With ZG76 no longer existing, the Stab was in limbo. It is thought stab, aircraft from 2/ZG76 and Jagdkette JG77 operated as an enlarged unit in Northern Norway. It is believed that the staff flight acted as Jafü, a command structure co-ordinating all heavy fighter operations in Luftflotte 5. It is thought that M8+ZE possibly stayed with this new enlarged unit Autumn of 1941 before returning to the 'Werft' (Maintenance Unit) at Stavanger, where it was used as a familiarisation aircraft for new ZG aircrews. Here it stayed until it leftstavanger on 13 February 1942 via aalborg-Copenhagen-Konigsburg-Reval-Helsinki-Pori-Rovaniemi before arriving at Kiestinki on 23th February 1942 when it immediatey began operations with 6.(Z)/JG5 but the codes were never changed. It was lost still carrying M8+ZE on 11th March 1942.

Bit vague I know. We know that Gerhard Schaske flew M8+YE and had 18 victories? but I do not know who the other Stab pilots were or who might have flew M8+ZE. A very long shot but thought I would ask.Any ideas?

regards

Mark

Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories
 

Craig: tanks, much appreciated.

Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories
 

Gents:

What is known about this "ace"?

Fw. Walter Scherer, 10 vict., JGr 102, ZG 26, POW 25.09.40.

As far I have nothing about him :( As far as he had no claims with J.Gr.102 (on Bf109D-1), so I beleive all his 10 victories are made flying Bf110.

As far as he was shot down and Prisoned - may be there are record in ZG 26 losslist, what aircraft did he flew.

Also, Is it possible to find out RAF pilot whot shot him down?

Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories
 

Laryy:

Here follows what I found about Oblt. Harald Zimmermann:

As You mentioned, he flew with 3./ZG 2, and Roberts version about 3M+HL was Zimmermann's aircraft seems to me very good, because individual letter "H" is deal with first letter of hia name "Harald".

I./ZG 2 was disbanded 9.40, remaining crews and aircrafts was absorbed by other Zerstorer Gruppen (I beleive mainly I./ZG 26 - there are photo of Bf110D-3 of I./ZG 26 with white nose and with II./ZG 2 emblem visible through it).

Oblt. Zimmermann, as one of very few survivors of ZG 2, moved to I./ZG 26.

He flew during Balkan campaign and Barbarossa operation in 1941.

I./ZG 26 was disbanded on 4.42, and was absorbed by ZG1 and ZG2 (new formed at that time).

Oblt. Zimmermann moved to StaKa of new formed 3./ZG 2 (what a circle!).

11.06.42, he was shot down and wounded (together with his Bf Uffz. H.Stump) by enemy fire in his Bf110E-2 of 3./ZG2, over Pechenegi (Печенеги), W.Nr.3893, 50%.

After his recovery, he was posted to III./ZG 1 (as StaKa of 9./ZG 1???) as his I./ZG 2 was disbanded on 8.42, with pilots absorbed by III./ZG 1(mainly) and NJG4.

On 05.11.42 Hptm. Harald Zimmermann was injured, when his Me210A (W.N.r.177) crashed following engine damage, near Araxes.

On 22.12.42 Me210A-1 of StaKa 8./ZG 1 Hptm. Heinrich Saß crashed on take-off for combat mission from Trapani airfield. Both pilot and bortfunker were killed. Unfortunatly, bombs, loaded in crashed Me210, exploaded, and Hptm. Harald Zimmermann was one of those who was killed by explosion.

But I still have no hos photo :(

Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories
 

Hi Evgeny,

Fw.Scherer flew with the 8/ZG26. He made six victories with this unit and one with other unit - so totally he has 7 claims. During the Polish Campaign in 1939 he was with 2/ZG2.

Regards

Robert

Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories
 

Hi, Robert.

Yes, I found it now, thx. Weird, didnt saw it before :)

25.01.40 Fw. Walter Scherer: 1 2./JGr. 102 Blenheim  S. Duisburg 15.20 OKL+JFV d.Dt.Lw. II - 32
27.05.40 Uffz. Walter Scherer 8./ZG 26 Hurricane  - 16.10 OKL C. 2031/I Anerk: Nr. -
14.06.40 Uffz. Walter Scherer 8./ZG 26 Spitfire  - 17.12 OKL C. 2031/I Anerk: Nr. -
10.07.40 Uffz. Walter Scherer 8./ZG 26 Hurricane  - 15.15 OKL C. 2031/I Anerk: Nr. -
29.07.40 Uffz. Walter Scherer 8./ZG 26 Hurricane  - 18.25 OKL C. 2031/I Anerk: Nr. -
18.08.40 Uffz. Walter Scherer 8./ZG 26 Spitfire  - 14.25 OKL C. 2031/I Anerk: Nr. -
03.09.40 Gefr. Heinz Schumacher 8./ZG 26 Spitfire  - 11.27 OKL C. 2031/I Anerk: Nr.
03.09.40 Uffz. Walter Scherer 8./ZG 26 Spitfire  - 11.30 OKL C. 2031/I Anerk: Nr. -


I just saw Petr Kacha's list show him with 10 victories... Strange.

Stab.(Z)/JG "Stavanger"
 

I have a photo of M8+YE, showing 12 air victory bars and 2 ships on fin. And that is Bf110E-2 of Hptm. Gerhard Schaschke.

Unfortunatly, have no idea too :(

Re: List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories
 

Evigny

When Walter Scherer was taken prisoner on 25/9/40 his Bf was Gefr. Heinz Schumacher (who was killed). I note that Schumacher is credited with a claim on 3/9/40 in Tony Woods list and if he was Scherer’s regular Bf. it is likely that this is one of the missing claims.

Regards,

Craig...