Me 262 Fl.Ü.G. 1
 

Need help with a Me 262 of Fl.Ü.G. 1 that is listed in the losses of Luftflotte 10 with W.Nr. 170900 on 22. Sep. 1944. Could this be a typo? Any thoughts are welcome.

Regards,

Norbert

Re: Me 262 Fl.Ü.G. 1
 

The source is listed as BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/780, p.187. It could be a clerical error, I suppose.

Perhaps Dan O'Connell can comment?

Re: Me 262 Fl.Ü.G. 1
 

Norbert -
There were no claims for ME 262 by 8th , 9th , 15th AF
Fighter Pilots on 9/22/44..
Mike

Re: Me 262 Fl.Ü.G. 1
 

I did some checking, and it can't be 170900, no such block. It isn't 170090 as it survived for some time after that, or 009 which was destroyed by bombing 19 July. It can't be 110900, 090, or 009 either. It also can't be 130900, 090, or 009.
None of the few losses of 262's in the week up to 22 September came even close to your W.Nr.
One of those mysteries I guess.

Re: Me 262 Fl.Ü.G. 1
 

Thank you all for the fast responses. I was afraid of that.

Regards,

Norbert

Re: Me 262 Fl.Ü.G. 1
 

Well, since it is in connection with Fl Ü G 1, what about if it were just a loss due to technical failure on a ferrying flight (Fl Ü G are just ferrying units) and not a loss due to combat actions? AFAIK the monthly losses (sometimes?) also listed ferried a/c.

Re: Me 262 Fl.Ü.G. 1
 

Hi, guys

The original record show the following information:

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=100993

Thus a relatively small damage percentage, might even have occured while the aircraft was on the ground... taxying incident or similar maybe.

Location is the airfield at Schwäbisch-Hall, and since the pilot did not sustain any injuries I suspect the only way to get further information is if some tower log, unit diary or similar mentioning the incident with detail appear.

My guess is that this airframe was repaired, and thus my best bet is that the real WNr is 170090. Norbert state a loss, and I think Dan assumed that this indicated a destroyed aircraft. This is clearly not the case and I would be confident to change the WNr in my database to 170090 and just add a note for this record stating what is discussed here.


Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Me 262 Fl.Ü.G. 1
 

Andreas brings up some very good points, and reminds us of how difficult researching these matters can be.
Here is the information I had about 170090:


170090 Call sign KP+OR. Me 262 A-2a. Delivered to I./KG 51 on 16 September 1944. The Technical Officer, Lt. Batel, noted a number of defects in the aircraft as delivered from the factory, typical of the problems of quality control in the German aircraft industry by this time. Among other issues, the canopy could not be locked from the inside, unless two men pushed down on it from the outside. The right rudder pedal was sticking, and the wheel covers did not fit. Fuel tank seals were already corroded and leaking, and the compass was incorrect by 20 degrees. All of these situations were corrected by Gruppen personnel. It was flown by Obfw. Otto Zeppenfeld of I./KG 51 to Fassberg on 30 March 1945, then to Rheinsehlen on the following day.

Note that I was unaware of a "techn. mängel" as applied to an accident, although the poor condition of the aircraft as received by KG 51 could explain the "15%", but it certainly was not a LOSS. Fl.Ü.G. 1 was not mentioned although it is most likely who delivered the aircraft.

Like Andreas, I would believe that the WNr is 170090, provided all information is presented as found, and noted.

You never stop learning in this interest :-)

Re: Me 262 Fl.Ü.G. 1
 

Here is how I changed the listing in my data base:

170090 Call sign KP+OR. Me 262 A-2a. Delivered to I./KG 51 on 16 September 1944. The Technical Officer, Lt. Batel, noted a number of defects in the aircraft as delivered from the factory, typical of the problems of quality control in the German aircraft industry by this time. Among other issues, the canopy could not be locked from the inside, unless two men pushed down on it from the outside. The right rudder pedal was sticking, and the wheel covers did not fit. Fuel tank seals were already corroded and leaking, and the compass was incorrect by 20 degrees. All of these situations were corrected by Gruppen personnel. Additional information indicates that on 22 September, it was involved in a 15% techn. mangel at Schwäbisch-Hall with Fl.Ü.G. 1. In the report dated on the 29th, it was referred to as ‘170900’, most likely this aircraft. It was flown by Obfw. Otto Zeppenfeld of I./KG 51 to Fassberg on 30 March 1945, then to Rheinsehlen on the following day.

I try to be very careful to only present the information as given.

Re: Me 262 Fl.Ü.G. 1
 

Hi, Dan and others

Yes, one learn all the time doing this! Part of the fun in my opinion...

I would like to add one thing:

The incident that occured was CAUSED by techn.Mängel or in english a technical problem, and the resulting DAMAGE was assessed as being 15%.

Seeing the state the aircraft as reported by KG 51 I would assume that 'something' happened to the aircraft when Fl.Ü.G.1 was ferrying it.

The term taken over by KG 51 also is of interest, and I would like a clarification and source for the date especially.

What I believe might have happened is:

1. Aircraft allocated to KG 51 on Sept 16th 1944 (in numerous german documents you see the term 'zugewiesen', a term I translate to allocated. In some instances I have been able to follow for aircraft allocated to units operating in Norway and northern Finnland it could be days, weeks and even in special instances months before the total number of aircraft allocated really was taken over by the unit)
2. Aircraft was to be ferried to KG 51 on Sept 22nd 1944, but sustained damage at Schwäbisch-Hall (Assuming that the aircraft was either to be flown from Waldwerk to the airfield, or from the airfield to a part of KG 51 not at Schwäbisch-Hall)
3. Aircraft repaired at Schwäbisch-Hall and transferred to the unit between Sept 22nd and Sept 30th 1944

Regards,
Andreas B