Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum - Rudolf Artner and the Finnish kill

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Rudolf Artner and the Finnish kill

Artner (9./JG 5) shot down a Finnish Ju 88 (JK-256) on 10th October 1944 at Simo. Were I might found the mission report if there is one? I am not acquiant with the Luftwaffe / Luftflotte 5 archives so any help would be great.

Martti

Re: Rudolf Artner and the Finnish kill

Hi Martti

I am afraid that I cannot answer your query, but I would like to learn more about this friendly fire incident. Do you have any additional details? Id and fate of crew, for example?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Rudolf Artner and the Finnish kill

Hi.

This was not a friendly fire incident, at this point the former brothers in arms the Finns and Germans were forced into a state of war by the Soviets/Allies. I do not have the complete combat report, but I do have reference to it in a daily report made by the Luftwaffe liaison officer to HQ 20. Gerbirgsarmee I believe.

Will try to dig it up.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Rudolf Artner and the Finnish kill

Hello Martti,

I have visited the crash site and by the memorial there was a copy of Artner's typewriter written combat report.I took photos of it and could send you them by email if you like.It's better than nothing :)

Harri

Re: Rudolf Artner and the Finnish kill

If I am not wrong Artner´s or witness report is in Girbig´s JG 5 book.

Re: Rudolf Artner and the Finnish kill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harri Honkanen (Post 67200)

I took photos of it and could send you them by email if you like.It's better than nothing :)

Please do so. I sent my address to your PM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan Bobek (Post 67235)

If I am not wrong Artner´s or witness report is in Girbig´s JG 5 book.

Great but I'm looking for something that I can use as a primary source (= archive sources) instead of a book which usually are secondary sources.

Martti

Re: Rudolf Artner and the Finnish kill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian (Post 67188)

Do you have any additional details? Id and fate of crew, for example?

Hello Brian!

The six Ju-88s took-off from Rissala Air Base at 2.10 p.m. Around 4 p.m. the German Messerschmitts found the planes and damaged the right wing and engine of JK-256. Pilot Captain (kapteeni) Kalevi Heiskanen, Gunner Sergeant (alikersantti) Esko Kauppila and Gunner Sergeant (alikersantti) Leo Immonen were killed. Observer Pilot Officer (vänrikki) Aarne Keko was wounded.

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/en/hist/hist_jk-256/ (photos from the crash site)

Re: Rudolf Artner and the Finnish kill

Text from the Site. Thanks Harri! Still looking for the source of the report though.:

G e f e c h t s b e r i c h t .
(15.Abschuß)

Am 10.10.44 um 14.50 Uhr startete ich mit einer Rotte im Schwarm der 9./J.G.5 zum Alarmstart auf Grund von Flukomeldung (?). urs naan (?) dem Start, um 14.56 Uhr bekamen wir luftkampf mit 6 finnischen Ju 88. Es gelang mir gleich, die zuletzt fliegende von hinten anzugreifen, die im Sturzflug zu entkernen versucht. Nach einigen gutliegenden Feuers tüpen (?) zeigten beide Motoren dunkle rauchfahne. Gleich darauf stürste die feindliche Ju 88 in einer Linkskurve ab. Der Aufachlag erfolgte um 15.00 Uhr 30 km südlich Rovaniemi (Quadrat 26 Ost-Nord UU 2.2.a (?)). Um 15.10 Uhr landete ich wieder auf dem Einsatzhafen.

Zeuge: Fhr. Rolf v. L i l i e n h o f f .

C o m b a t R e p o r t .
(15th Aerial Victory)

I scrambled with an other Rotte (2+2 = Schwarm) of the 9./J.G.5 based on an alarm given by the Air Surveillance (?) on 10th October 1944 at 2.50 p.m. Soon after the take-off, on 2.46 p.m., we got into combat with six Finnish Ju 88s. I succeeded to attack the last plane from behind, the plane attempted nose diving. After a burst of fire dark smoke came out of the both engines. Immediately after that the enemy Ju 88 got in to a left spiral dive. The plane hit the ground 30 kilometers (19 miles) south of Rovaniemi on 3 p.m. o'clock (Quadrat 26 East-North UU 2.2.a (?)). I landed to the air base on 3.10 p.m.

Witness: Fhr. Rolf v. L i l i e n h o f f .

Re: Rudolf Artner and the Finnish kill

Martti,

Can you tell me what Artner's rank was at the time of this claim?

Thanks,
Tom

Re: Rudolf Artner and the Finnish kill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Semenza (Post 67473)

Can you tell me what Artner's rank was at the time of this claim?

Hello Tom!

Feldwebel?