About german identification of claimed fighter planes
 

I always wonder why german claims at eastern front where such unexactly when it comes to the type of plane that was shot down.

Take i. e. the 5th July 1943 at Kursk (65 years ago ;) ) where the germans claimed mostly Lagg-3 and MiG-1/3(!).

Only LaGG-5 and some Yak-1 claims seems to be more exactly.

I think this can't be really explained by the similar look of this planes. Especially MiG-3 a little bit different from Yaks.

Even if you mean, germans were such experienced pilots, they don't need to look which plane was at the soviet side, this cannot be the real reason.
Those experts should know the enemy more exactly than others.
At least it should also be a little be important to know, what plane is fighting against me?

G. Rall describes in his "Mein Flugbuch" some statements about Yak-9 and La-5. Same can be said about the works by Schwabedissen and Plocher. I also know statements from GLM and Graf about soviet planes, quite matchning soviet figures. The GLM was at least in 1942 quite well informed about soviet fighter planes (not so about heavier bombers).

Re: About german identification of claimed fighter planes
 

They were no better in North Africa either. Similar confusion can be found in all air forces. Air combat tends to be fleeting contact at long ranges, with very excited and highly stressed individuals. We judge aircraft recognition from a quiet static position, looking at detailed close-ups for an extended time. Given that our knowledge of what was available, and which is which, is far superior from that known at the time, and that (from the record) not all fighter pilots were all that interested in the subject anyway, mistakes were inevitable and understandable.

Re: About german identification of claimed fighter planes
 

Adding to what Graham said: a recollection is not a recording. I'm no psychologist but I think humans try, after something is over, to make sense of what we saw. It's like we're programmed to try and fit a lot of different fragments of memory together — even when the bits don't all fit and many of them are missing. That is, we can't help trying to interpret what we see.

That car that overtoook you from out of nowhere and disappeared around a bend in the road — it was over in a second. How many details did you see? Colour, make, reigstration number, description of driver, what he/she was wearing?

Air combat at 500 km/h in three dimensions poses all those problems but multiplied. And people really are trying to kill you …

Re: About german identification of claimed fighter planes
 

Even with Rall claim list happened one intresting metamorphoses in his "Mein Flugbuch". The III./JG52 and it chief Rall claims often, even in 1944, the soviet plane "lagg". This type did not exist, but we can assume, it was one single engine plane. In the claim list of "Mein Flugbuch", all planes with type "lagg" from the middle of 1943 was substituted with type "LAGG-5". As result, the LAGG-5 was the type, which mostly claimed by Rall. For each, who know something about soviet figther arm structure and numbers, appears such claims as not possible: the primary soviet type was Yak and the most claims should be concern this type and not La(GG)-5.

I assume, as Rall prepared his book, he or his editor, realized, that "lagg" type does not exist, and it was replaced with similar sounded LAGG-5. But I can only guess, what Rall really shot down

Re: About german identification of claimed fighter planes
 

Hallo!

Have you (or anyone) tried to match German "MiG" claims against Il-2 losses? They are remarkably similar in appearance in quick look - especially one-seater Il-2. Their engine/nose is similar bulky affair and wings tapered - for 1943 period Il-2 wings were straight too.

IIRC there is one or two cases where Finnish pilots reported very lazily manouvering/non-agressive MiGs which in reality were Il-2.


Kari