Need help on Bf.109K "Red 7" 12./JG27
 

Hello!
I'm looking for info about camo colors on this Bf.109K "Red 7" from 10./JG27, Prag-Kbely 1945:
http://www.postimage.org/gx1B7zW0.jpg
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1B7zW0
Now I have few choices:
a) RLM 81/83/84 - from AeroMaster decals
b) RLM 81/82/76 - from Revell instructions
c) RLM 81/83/76 - from EagleCal decals

Does anyone have JaPo book about 109K colors (second edition)?
I've heard what in this book this plane stated as having RLM75/83/76 camo colors. Could someone check it, please?
Thank you very much in advance!

Re: Need help on Bf.109K "Red 7" 12./JG27
 

Hi
The first volume of JaPo has this a/c as "Blue 7" and in 83/81 color combination. Cannot check now whether they refined their opinion on colors in Vol II.
There are 3 pics of this a/c in Vol I.

Re: Need help on Bf.109K "Red 7" 12./JG27
 

Yes, now this plane stated as "Red 7" from 12./JG27 (from EagleCal decal and from HyperScale forum). Both EagleCal and HyperScale noted also what JaPo second book also counted this plane as "Red 7". I need to know which camo colors JaPo used for this 109K at their second book - are they RLM75/83/76 or 81/83/76?

Re: Need help on Bf.109K "Red 7" 12./JG27
 

I just looked quickly through JaPo's Bf 109K — camouflage & markings and I couldn't spot the aircraft you are interested in, only other machines from III./JG 27. Do you have a page reference? In JaPo's original Bf 109 K book it was profiled as blue 7 with uppersurface camouflage of 81 and 83.

But why are you so worried about someone else's opinion? They were interpreting a monochrome photo, just as you could do, and it is an uncertain process. The saying "your guess is as good as mine" is especially true when it comes to things like this.

Re: Need help on Bf.109K "Red 7" 12./JG27
 

Nick, thank you for answer!
Actually I'm building FineMolds' 109K kit as this "Red 7" so I'm interesting in selecting right colors for it. Mr. Kiyokazu Isomi built his 109K according latest JaPo Bf.109K book and here you can see his finished model:
http://www.hsgalleries.com/gallery04/bf109k4ki_1.htm
As you can see his choice was RLM 75/83/76 scheme:
http://www.hsgalleries.com/gallery04...kansei3web.jpg
At HyperScale discussion forum there were words what it was actually "Blue 7" but some one who own JaPo vol.2 wrote what according this book now it's "Red 7". Also local modeler who also own JaPo vol.2 wrote the same info later. But as for now I can't contact him so I'm trying to find owner of vol.2 again :) I think what 2 other modelers couldn't be wrong and you can find info about this plane in your copy :) Thank you very much in advance! :)

Re: Need help on Bf.109K "Red 7" 12./JG27
 

Hi!

I'm pretty sure about the rudder and the main wings. They're RLM 75/83 - got to be with that kind of contrast. The tailfin would be RLM 81/83 and the fuselage, I think it's RLM 75/83 although it looks darker than the wings but that is propably because of the light. It's not impossible though, that an RLM 75/83 wing was attached to a RLM 81/83 fuselage...

Cheers! / Anders

Re: Need help on Bf.109K "Red 7" 12./JG27
 

This one has been around a long time!

The vintage Monogram "Close-Up 16" (1979) devoted to the 109K depicts this machine as "Blue 7" of 12./JG 27. The camo is a pale shade of 81 and 83, with blue-green (to use JaPo's term for the much-discussed late-war "sky" or "84" color) on the fuselage undersurfaces, with standard 76 beneath the wings. The upper camouflage colors are solid on the cowl down to the line of the exhausts. The fin is solid 83, the rudder 81 with hard-edged 83 spots. The spinner is depicted in black with a white spiral.

As you noted, the JaPo book "Messerschmitt Bf 109K" (1997) has three photos of the aircraft on p. 54, where the captions refer to it as "Blue 7" of 12./JG 27. The color depictions in the profile on the book's back cover are pretty much identical to the old Monogram rendition. The exception is the upper surface color demarcation on the cowl, shown high with blue-green and dense 81/83 mottling on the cowl sides. The spinner is shown in solid 70 sans spiral, which appears to agree with the photos.

JaPo's "Messerschmitt Bf 109K Camouflage and Marking" (2000) does not depict this aircraft, but it does have a very similar machine. "Blue 16" of 12./JG 27 is profiled on p. 32, with a photo on p. 33. This aircraft has a similar upper surface color pattern to "7," but the colors are 75/83 with the exception of the 81 tail with hard 83 spots. The fuselage sides and undersurfaces are shown entirely in standard 76. The spinner is black with a white spiral.

The profile's caption notes the aircraft's camo is "...almost identical with that of the well-known "Red 7" at Praha-Kbely. Therefore we assume it was produced in the 331xxx batch...". The photo caption again mentions the resemblance to "Red 7." So one must conclude the JaPo authors changed their minds about both the basic camouflage colors of this serial batch (discussed at length in the text), and the markings color of aircraft "7" (no further elaboration on this point).

I find JaPo's research methodology extremely impressive. My two cents: if it were my model, I'd go with "Red 7" in 75/83/76; 83 fin; 81/83 rudder; high nose color demarcation; fairly heavy mottling/staining on the sides of the nose and fuselage; 70 spinner without spiral.

Finally a very minor point--JaPo's two books on the 109K are separate titles with very different emphases. They are not a closely linked "volume 1 and 2" in the same sense that their recent monumental Fw 190D books are.

Let us know how the model turns out!

Re: Need help on Bf.109K "Red 7" 12./JG27
 

Thank you all for your info (special thanks for MDriskill his opinion)! :)
So for final confirmation - this camo colors should be OK for "Red 7" except white spiral, yes?
http://www.hsgalleries.com/gallery04...kansei6web.jpg

Re: Need help on Bf.109K "Red 7" 12./JG27
 

That depends if you think there was a yellow band around the nose immediately aft of the spinner. That area appears to be in a lighter colour on the photographs, at least.

Re: Need help on Bf.109K "Red 7" 12./JG27
 

So here comes the another question - do you know any Bf.109 from JG27 with Yellow ID band? As far as I know only late Bf.109s from JG52 had such nose yellow ID band :confused: