Trying to solve a mystery concerning Bf110 of ErprGr210 during 1940
 

Hello,

I'm pondering a mystery. I recently acquired a photo of a Bf110, probably a "D" model, that was very likely taken on the airfield at Cherbourg, France, most likely during the summer or early fall of 1940. It was probably from 1. Staffel. The remarkable thing about the photo, since it was known to have been taken in the west, is that it carries at least six white victory tabs on the fin. According to John Vasco, who has worked closely with me on this, a photo of the unit scoreboard after the Battle of Britain indicates the unit scored a total of 12 victories to the end of 1940. Only a couple of these are by known pilots. No one in EGr210 is known to have scored this kind of total. Besides someone in the unit claiming this many victories, it could have been a pilot who transferred in with some victories already to his credit. The other possibility is that the plane was transferred in from another unit (mostly likely 1./ZG1) already carrying several victory tabs, which were perhaps added to by the pilot while he was in EGr210. This does not appear to be the aircraft of Victor Mölders, whose Bf110 with 7 victory tabs while with 1./ZG1 is known. His a/c carried the old, solid uppersurface camouflage, and this one has the later, mottle-sided finish typical of early Ds.

John immediately thought of Wolfgang Schenck, who joined 1./EGr210 on 4.9.40, and soon became the Staffel Kap, and later the Gr. Kdr. Schenck is known to have had two earlier victories to his credit with 1./ZG1 during the FC, but his RKT bio says that he scored only two of his 18 victories in the west. Either this bio is wrong, or this can't be Wolfgang Schenck's aircraft. It wouldn't be the only error in the RKT bios (Eduard Tratt comes to mind), but is seems somewhat unlikely.

So that leaves us with an aircraft whose pilot was a relatively high Bf110 scorer for the period, especially since his unit specialized in fighter bomber tactics. It seems unlikely that one pilot would score half the unit's victories in 1940, and to this day go unrecognized, especially given the intense research John Vasco has done on that unit. Schenck seems unlikely. So who could be the pilot of this aircraft? Does anyone have a good candidate? I reiterate that this was definitely not taken in the east, where such a scoreboard would have been much more plausible.

Regards,

Re: Trying to solve a mystery concerning Bf110 of ErprGr210 during 1940
 

Hi Larry: What about Major Wilhelm Lessmann, ex-II/ZG2? He was posted in as Gruppe Kdr. in early November I believe. I don't know his exact # of Victory claims, however he had claims dating back to fall of 1939 when this unit was on bf109C's (Jgr152-I/ZG52-II/ZG2).A post some time ago indicated he had 2 Vic. on bf109's, plus 5 on bf110's with I/ZG52 (12 Sept.2007)Perhaps he is a possibilty... Regards. Dean

Re: Trying to solve a mystery concerning Bf110 of ErprGr210 during 1940
 

Larry,

could you post the picture so we can study it too? I will see if I can find something on the victories of ErpGr 210.

Cheers,

regards,

John.

Re: Trying to solve a mystery concerning Bf110 of ErprGr210 during 1940
 

Larry,

can't help much. Maj. Wilhelm Lessmann became Gr.Kdr. on 20.10.1940 and I don't think he had that many vic's yet. I assume you have Lt. Georg Boxhammer's vic (at night) which must have taken place somewhere in March 1941.

John

Re: Trying to solve a mystery concerning Bf110 of ErprGr210 during 1940
 

Larry,

I don't think this is Wolfgang Schenck's a/c. We all know Schenck's a/c of his 200. FF celebration series. I have a couple of original prints showing the tail of that a/c and I believe at that date, 22.06.1942 Schenck had 16 victories. Most pictures show top row of 9 but this should be 10 (I have an "original" that vaguely shows the 10th bar) and the second row shows 6 vic bars. All except for the first two of the top row have what it seems a red star in the white circle. So it seems Obermaier is right.

Cheers,

John.

Re: Trying to solve a mystery concerning Bf110 of ErprGr210 during 1940
 

Could it be something as simple as the aircraft being shared by several pilots?

Re: Trying to solve a mystery concerning Bf110 of ErprGr210 during 1940
 

No one else? I thought this was quite an interesting subject.....Larry, would love to see the picture.

Cheers,

John

Re: Trying to solve a mystery concerning Bf110 of ErprGr210 during 1940
 

Why not Molders' aircraft with a repaint? It would not have been difficult to add mottling to the sides.

Re: Trying to solve a mystery concerning Bf110 of ErprGr210 during 1940
 

Gentlemen: I am open to correction here, but I thought when 1/ZG1 was redesignated 1/ErproGr210 they were equipped mainly with Bf110C-6's, Moelders himself going to nightfighters prior to JG51. Larry states he believes the photo to be a "D" model, which loss lists suggest was only showing up on ZG units in late July/early August. I'm guessing, in the absence of Stab markings, that Lessmann maybe isn't a possibility either.Gerhard Schmidt, KIA 27.9.40, or Fritz Duensing, KIA 5.10.40 were both notable pilots whose roots were with 1/ZG1, both having some victories, although I'm not sure how many. It would be nice to see the photograph... Dean

Re: Trying to solve a mystery concerning Bf110 of ErprGr210 during 1940
 

Gentlemen: Wasn't 1/ZG1 mainly equipped with Bf110C and C-6 A/C when it became 1/Erpro210? Moelders of course went to nightfighters. Seems unlikely one of his A/C would have survived that long, givin the losses sustained by Erpro210 in the BOB. I think Larry stated he thought it was possibly a "D" model, which I don't think started showing up in any strength until late July/ early August. Two notable pilots that had roots back to 1/ZG1, and had scored a number of victories,although not sure how many, were Fritz Duensing, KIA5.10.40, and Gerhard Schmidt, KIA 27.9.40. Possibilities? Would be nice to see the photo.... Dean.