lilia litvak
 

Does somebody tell me which german pilot was shot down on last days of may 1943, by Lilia Litvak (it was her 10th victory). According to her mecanician, it was a Bf 109 with a "PikAs" (so a plane of the JG 53), piloted by an officer with many victories..
Thanks a lot

Christian

Re: lilia litvak
 

Christian,

Neither Stalin's Eagles or Stalin's Falcons provide any details as to the identity of the pilot you mention.

Claims listed in Stalin's Falcons for May43

5th - Bf109
7th - Bf109
31st - Balloon

Out of Lidiya Litvyak's 12+4 (+1 balloon) claims Stalin's Falcons lists 15 (out of 17).

Regards

Andy Fletcher

Re: lilia litvak
 

Hi Christian,

All gruppen of JG53 were operating in the MTO at the time you mention.

Maybe the "Ace of Spades" (Pik As) symbol was a personal emblem of the pilot in question.

All the best

Andy Fletcher

Re: lilia litvak
 

Hello Andy,

Please don´t take neither Stalin´s Eagles nor Stalin´s Falcons too seriously. The recent serious research made by Mikhail Bykov´s group revealed that the official Litvak´s score at the moment of her death was just 4 personal + 3 group kills. I am not sure if any of these was achieved in the end of May 1943, but perhaps some of our Russian friends could shed some light into it.

Re: lilia litvak
 

Hi Ota,

Thanks for the warning. I've heard that they are both regarded by Russian researchers as not being very accurate, but they are probably the best books on Soviet aces written in English available at the moment.

I'm struggling to learn German so the though of trying to learn Russian is just too much to contemplate.

I hope that Mikhail's book will be published in English as he and the researchers around him seem to be really serious about producing accurate biografical information.

All the best

Andy Fletcher

Re: lilia litvak
 

Hello Andy,

According to the post by MiB on one of the Russian forums in 2003, only two Litvak´s victories achieved with 296 IAP (73 GIAP) in 1943 have been found in the documents: 1 Ju 88 on 22. 3. 1943 and 1 Bf 109 on 19. 7. 1943. Plus one balloon on 31. 5. 1943.

Re: lilia litvak
 

Hi, all!

The identity of this misterious ace, I believe, could not be established. First of all we don't have correct date, even approximate period of the event. Soviet sources highlight two possible variants: May 1942 and Summer 1942 in the Stalingrad sector. I, personally, doubt that the case with ace happened in reality. It is not reflected in the documents of 6 GIAD. The situation is shady enough to suspect that it was all invented afterwards.
The most reasonable explanation, IMHO, is that the imprisoned german pilot, not neccessarily ace, was introduced to Litwyak and other pilots while a brief sojourn after he was shoot down near the airfield (this was a common practise). After the war this occasion was twisted by certain imagination. Thus, another legend emerged...

BR,
Nikita

Re: Lidiya "Lilia" Vladimirovna LITVYAK <> lilia litvak
 

Gaynako ! Do You know it ?
First Name : Lidia or Lidiya > Лидия
Nickname : Lilia or Liliya > Лилия
Father's Name : Vladimirovna > Владимировна
Last NAME : LITVYAK > Литвяк
(FIO) Литвяк Лидия Владимировна

its real last name ! http://www.warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=482
http://wbfirstwomansq.narod.ru/lidija_litvyak.htm
also list of claims
http://airaces.narod.ru/woman/litvyk.htm
regards,
Marek

Re: lilia litvak
 

Thank you very much for those precious informations. At last, I cannot read Russian, above all because of the cyrillic alphabet.
It seems that our poor Lidia Vladimirovna Litvyak was not exactly the ace she is supposed to be..Anyway, it was a very, very courageous woman and I think that USSR was right to honore her.

Thanks again

Christian