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- - JG5 combat 19.06.43 (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=15675)

markjsheppard

12th January 2009 22:32

JG5 combat 19.06.43

Hi

Trying to find out more on an air combat between 78IAP and JG5 over/near Petsamo at 2.00am on 19th June 1943. (24 hours daylight).

JG5 claimed around 7 Hurricanes.

78IAP claimed one Bf109.

Can find nothing on either claim/loss. Any confirmation of unit/pilots.

Am assuming it was III/JG5.

Nothing in Eric Mombeek's books on JG5.

Anybody help?

regards

Mark

Andreas Brekken

12th January 2009 22:49

Re: JG5 combat 19.06.43

Hi.

Unit involved was 8. and 9. Staffel JG 5

Claimants for Hurricanes was Hans-Bruno Diepen, Jakob Norz and Hans Thomann. Claims were obviously made from two different sorties according to the times noted.

Only loss seemingly sustained by JG 5 on this date a Bf 110 from 13.(Z)/J.G.5

Regards,
Andreas B

markjsheppard

13th January 2009 10:04

Re: JG5 combat 19.06.43

Thanks Andreas (and Kari).

Have a lot more information now - just need to make sense of it all.

regards

Mark

yogybär

13th January 2009 12:25

Re: JG5 combat 19.06.43

Mark, hereby answering your mail:

My data is different, all german claims on 19.6.1943 between 1:50 and 2:05, location "37 Ost/20/4...", altitude between 100 and 600m:
2 x Boston (Oblt. Widowitz)
5 x Hurricane II ( Fw. Norz, Ltn. Diepen, 3x Uffz. Thomann)
4 x P-39 (3x Oblt. Widowitz, Ltn. Diepen).
All pilots from 9./JG5 except Norz who was in 8./JG5.

Do you know if the actual soviet losses were really so high?

Especially Widowitz' claims (2x Boston + 3x P-39 ) are "interesting" - he must have been a very good shooter.

markjsheppard

13th January 2009 14:07

Re: JG5 combat 19.06.43

Jörg

Norz's Hurricane claim was in the afternoon - dfferent combat.

Amazingly the loses nearly match the claims.

Possibly a bombing raid on Petsomo. Trying to find out more.

11 for one loss. Of 2./78IAP sent 8 Hurricanes up - five shot down and 2 damaged. This was happening day on day!!

...and everyone talks about the 'high' US daylight loses - nowhere near this level!

regards

Mark

markjsheppard

14th January 2009 14:26

Re: JG5 combat 19.06.43

Jörg

As my email to you confirmed, Widowitz's claim was 2 Boston's was interesting as there was none involved in this operation or any operation in that area this day.

The Hurricane claims/loses tie up - the Boston and P39 do not!

Where he got two Boston's claims from I do not know.

regards

Mark

Sanchez

14th January 2009 14:47

Re: JG5 combat 19.06.43

Losses of 78 IAP VVS SF on this date:

Hurricane, shot down in air combat, mladshiy leitenant Nazarov KIA
Hurricane, shot down in air combat, mladshiy leitenant Gaplikov KIA
Hurricane, shot down in air combat, mladshiy leitenant Starosvetskiy KIA
Hurricane, shot down in air combat, pilot OK
Hurricane, shot down in air combat, pilot OK

Nothing about Bostons or Aircobras.

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