Curtiss SOC Opponents, Sicily
 

Several SOC floatplanes from the US cruisers Brooklyn, Boise, Savannah and Philadelphia were downed, by what they identified as Bf109's, during the invasion of Sicily in July 1943. In several other cases they also evaded such attacks with low speed manuever or running back into range of shipboard AA guns. Despite limited Allied landbased fighter air cover, the ships felt no choice but to continue to send the vulnerable float biplanes on gunfire spotting missions until Boise and Savannah had lost all their planes (4? each, mostly though not all to fighters), plus losses from the other ships.

But, the only likely German claim I can find for that time and place is one for'Seeflzg by Ltn. Wilhelm Esser of Stab/JG 53 at Gela on July 10, another that day by JG 53 is for a 'Ryan'. I assume either there are other German claims and/or other attackers were Italian. Does anyone know all the axis claims against the USN floatplanes at Sicily?

Joe

Re: Curtiss SOC Opponents, Sicily
 

Hi Joe,

and could you give us days of this accidents? And list the losses?

Regards

Robert

Re: Curtiss SOC Opponents, Sicily
 

I don't have a source listing them in exhaustive detail (I hope someone else has that, too), but here is a summary based on "Fantail Fighters" by Jerry Scutts:

All attacks mentioned were July 10, 1943

-USS Brooklyn off Monte Dususino, 1 SOC badly shot up by a Messerschmitt...early morning hours...survived to stagger back to its parent ship.

-USS Boise and USS Savannah off Gela, 4 SOC's reporting on bombardment results, driven off by Bf109's, a/c of Lt. Charles A Anderson shot down.

0827, Savannah launched 2 more SOC's, 1 piloted by Lt. Osborn was shot down and the other fled back to protection of the fleet's AA..recovered around 1027.

0830 SOC of Lt. Cyril G. Lewis and Lt Harding from Boise, observing Axis tanks on road south of Niscemi, attacked by 2 Bf109's, which missed and broke off apparently short of fuel. Harding came under unsuccessful fighter attack again on the way back to the ship.

1215 Lewis on another mission directing Boise's fire against tanks was attacked by 2 Bf109's, which made 3 unsuccessful passes.

Savannah's other a/c (besides Osborns, downed) returned with damage (cause not specified)

1319 Boise loses her last operational SOC to a Bf109 (no details)

-USS Philadelphia off Scogliiti: launches 4 SOC's at 0530, one shot down by fighters in the half light of dawn...was to lose 2 more before the day was out (no causes or details given).

Separately, a commercial site selling US WWII loss reports features only there 4 SOC's for that day:
SOC-3A BuNo. 1146 (Savannah)
SOC-3A BuNo. 1097 (Savannah, Osborn's a/c)
SOC-3A BuNo. 1091 (Savannah, Anderson's a/c)
SOC-3A BuNo. 1131 (Philadelphia)

Joe

Re: Curtiss SOC Opponents, Sicily
 

Joe,
The USN aircraft loss list, which I have on microfilm, and now in an unedited database, shows just those four losses. I have the Philadelphia loss as BuNo 1130, which could just be a typo on my part. You might check the relevent volume of Morrison for what he has to say. Other than that you will have to find the various action reports for the cruisers at NARA II. I think I can supply the shelf references for them. I expect to get to NARA II sometime this year, but I have not scheduled the trip yet.

Frank.

Re: Curtiss SOC Opponents, Sicily
 

Hi Joe,

at least two of them were reported shot down by JG53:
- Ofw. Rollwage 5./JG53 Ryan 2 km S of Gela at low-level at 10.39
- Ltn. Esser stab/JG53 Seaplane 5 km W of Gela at 300 m at 13.08
The rest must fell to Italian fighters.

Regards

Robert

Re: Curtiss SOC Opponents, Sicily
 

Thanks for the replies so far, but actually I already mentioned the two JG53 credits in my opening post, as well as suggesting the other losses might have been to Italian fighters. My question is whether anyone has specific knowledge of whether that's true and *which* Italian units.

Joe

Re: Curtiss SOC Opponents, Sicily
 

Anybody? If Italian fighter units v SOC's, which ones?

Joe

Re: Curtiss SOC Opponents, Sicily
 

Hi Joe,

I have nothing to add, som a bit to exclude. As far as I can see in my listing none of the Fw 190 units stationed in the area made any aerial claims on 10 July.

Cheers
Morten

Re: Curtiss SOC Opponents, Sicily
 

Joe,

do you have access to the book Spitfires over Sicily? It gives some details about missions flown by floatplanes on July 10.

cheers

Re: Curtiss SOC Opponents, Sicily
 

Thanks for that suggestion. I got the book recently, had been meaning to get it anyway for general reading. But, the only place the USN cruiser floatplanes are mentioned AFAICT, p. 126, doesn't really add to what's already been stated: only mentions 2 losses of the Boise's a/c, not the other ships, only mentions the single JG53 credit mentioned above by way of explanation, and mislabels the USN a/c as OS2U's (they were definitely SOC's); but of course Spitfires not cruiser floatplanes are the main focus of the book.

Joe