13.05.1940 Neerwinden MIA ?
 

Bonjour,

I look for any information about this lost :

- May 13 1940
- 17.00,
- Neerwinden,
- 3 RAF airmen MIA unidentified.

Where did those informations come from?

Merci beaucoup


(Some identify those unknown airmen as those from Blenheim N6173 shot down near Sedan on May 14 1940, P/O Chamberlain killed in a hospital at Luxembourg).

Re: 13.05.1940 Neerwinden MIA ?
 

Arnaud,

According to my notes taken from the No.59 Squadron ORB in NA(PRO) AIR27/554, P/O C.J.E. CHAMBERLAIN and crew failed to return from an evening reconnaissance sortie on 13 May 1940 their take-off being timed at 18.30 hours. I further noted that the Squadron Equipment Officer's Report filed in the ORB Appendices AIR27/558 dated the loss as 12 May 1940. So, given the degree of confusion apparent in the squadron records, and the time of the sortie on which they went missing, it is perhaps not surprising that this crew are officially commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial as missing on 14 May 1940.

The records of the CWGC confirm that three unidentified RAF airmen buried in collective grave VI.G.7 at Hotton War Cemetery had been re-interred from Neerwinden Churchyard where they were originally buried, their date of death being recorded as 13 May 1940. They remain 'Unknown'.

It is I that made the connection and first suggested the possibility that the missing CHAMBERLAIN crew was that buried at Neerwinden in The Battle of France Then & Now published in 2007.

Clearly, if you have evidence to the contrary then I will be pleased to hear of it and, in any event, would be most interested to learn your own source for saying that the aircraft in question was shot down near Sedan on the following day and that P/O CHAMBERLAIN died in hospital in Luxembourg.

Many thanks.

Re: 13.05.1940 Neerwinden MIA ?
 

Thank you M. Cornwell,

1. The mission was Sedan according to this website:
http://www.number59.com/new_59/roll/crew_html/blen_chamberlain.html
Where does it come from? I hope someone could give some more details concerning this information: 2 Blenheim of N° 59 Squadron shot down at Sedan on May 14 1940. This is right for the one piloted by P/O Hawks. For the second, this is the question ?

2. P/O Chamberlain was sent to Hospital and died at Luxembourg:
Source : The Bristol Blenheim by M. Graham Warner.
Where does it come from? I hope someone or M. Graham himself could precise this very interesting point.

3. At Neerwinden, is anybody has find the crash site to confirm it is a Blenheim? Is there any testimony?

For the moment, I don’t think this aircraft was lost near Sedan. But I hope someone could answer those three questions. There are all very important indeed.

Bye

Re: 13.05.1940 Neerwinden MIA ?
 

M. Cornwell,

One more thing. You wrote :
“According to my notes taken from the No.59 Squadron ORB in NA(PRO) AIR27/554, P/O C.J.E. CHAMBERLAIN and crew failed to return from an evening reconnaissance sortie on 13 May 1940 their take-off being timed at 18.30 hours.”

I have checked Air 27/554 :
“13/5/40 : Rumours of attack on aerodrome. P/O Chamberlain carried out recco, reported missing. Parachutists reported at Poix, searched produced no result” [no time mentioned].

I have checked Air 27/560 : I can’t find anything.

I haven’t unfortunately the document you mention in Air 27/558.

You write the take-off being timed at 18.30. This is very interesting. I haven’t found that information in Air 27/554. Where is it? Do you have the folio? Was it in Air 27/560? If yes could you rewrite here what it is written?

Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge.

Bye

Arnaud

Re: 13.05.1940 Neerwinden MIA ?
 

That’s weird!

Did you know that two French squadrons (GC III/2 and GC III/7) claimed that day, this afternoon, near that town Neerwinden a Henschel 126. The complete destruction is pretty certain as pilots saw that aircraft crashing on the ground!

Unfortunately I haven’t identified this Henschel 126… Does anyone have a suggestion?

M. Cornwell could you confirm the crash time of P/O Chamberlain’s Blenheim you gave? Does anyone know who shot down that Blenheim at Neerwinden?

Re: 13.05.1940 Neerwinden MIA ?
 

Arnaud,

I can only repeat what I said in my earlier post, namely, 'According to my notes taken from the No.59 Squadron ORB in NA(PRO) AIR27/554, P/O C.J.E. CHAMBERLAIN and crew failed to return from an evening reconnaissance sortie on 13 May 1940 their take-off being timed at 18.30 hours'. So, my source for the time of take-off will have been the 'Details of Flights' section of the ORB rather than the 'Daily Narrative' itself - I forget the exact terminology used in the ORB but the information is filed separately. The time of the crash near Neerwinden on 13 May 1940 involving the deaths of three unidentified RAF airmen is not known.

Re: 13.05.1940 Neerwinden MIA ?
 

M. Cornwell,

I am so sorry but I have checked again all my copies for May and June 1940 from Air 27/554 but I didn’t find anything concerning this very important take-off time 18.30! I have taken in photo all those pages so it is quiet easy to check. I have checked the O.R.B. “Summary of Events” part and also the O.R.B. “Detail of work carried out”: nothing. I don’t understand…

In Air 27/554, I have found only that:
“13/5/40 : Rumours of attack on aerodrome. P/O Chamberlain carried out recco, reported missing [no time mentioned]. Parachutists reported at Poix, searched produced no result”.

Does anybody know where is this take-off time?

Thank

Re: 13.05.1940 Neerwinden MIA ?
 

Arnaud,

I am as puzzled as you but my notes are as they are. You have the advantage of photocopies of the Squadron ORB to hand so I will not dispute the point further. It is of course possible that I extracted the time from the Equipment Officer's Report in the Appendices AIR27/558?

Re: 13.05.1940 Neerwinden MIA ?
 

Bonjour,

Thank you. I will check this Air 27/558 next year...

For the moment, I am looking for a copy of that book called "Keep Them Flying" written by Richard Los. There are some details about P/O Chamberlain, as written, who died in hospital in Luxembourg or France:

"According to certain sources, P/O Chamberlain survived and was by one account taken to a hospital in France and another story was that he escaped to Luxembourg (Richard Los, Keep Them Flying)."

For that day, I have a lot of interesting problems: several crews missing around Sedan and unidentified crash sites of Blenheim. I have too a strange airmen buried at Sainte-Menehould and killed on May 14 1940 now buried without name at Choloy (source CWGC). I have no crash site of a British plane that day around that town!

Bon vol

Arnaud

Re: 13.05.1940 Neerwinden MIA ?
 

Arnaud,

Given that P/O CHAMBERLAIN, Sgt SHELDON, and AC1 HANDS are all still officially missing I think you can safely discount any suggestion that he survived in a hospital in France or 'escaped to Luxembourg'. This account from a single erroneous source has since appeared in various publications and the danger is that through repetition it may eventually come to be accepted as fact.

According to the CWGC records, the Unknown RAF Airman exhumed on 23 October 1947 from Ste Menehould French Military Cemetery and now in Grave IIA.B.21 at Choloy 'Died of wounds 14 May 1940' which may indicate that his loss occurred sometime before that date?