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- Japanese and Allied Air Forces in the Far East (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?f=26)

- - George Welch and 20/8/43 (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=23562)

George Welch and 20/8/43

I have read several accounts of this action but identification of his kills on this date seem to be at variance. One says three Oscars, another three Tony's and even three Zekes. I know there was a heavy JAAF presence in that area and so the Army fighters seem most logical but which type?

regards

Keith

Re: George Welch and 20/8/43

His combat report indicates they were "Tony" type. See page 65 of P-38 Lightning vs Ki-61 Tony, by Donald Nijboer

Re: George Welch and 20/8/43

American fighters (39th and 80th FS) claimed thirteen victories including four Tonys (Type 3 fighters) of which Welch claimed three. Claims included Oscars (Type 1 fighters), Zekes (navy Zeros, none present, probably misidentified Type 1's); twin engine fighters (Type 2 two seat fighters or misidentified bombers); and the 'Tonys'.

Japanese records indicate six losses and many aircraft damaged. The losses most likely were in air combat but most of those a/c damaged were probably the result of bombing. Three pilots killed were from 24th Hiko Sentai (Type 1 fighters). Two were from 13th Hiko Sentai (Type 2 two seat fighters usual equipment but re-equipping with Type 1 fighters due to shortage of twin engine fighters). Thus possibly one Type 3 fighter was lost in combat. Two days earlier only six Type 3 fighters were serviceable and on the previous day most pilots of the 68th and 78th Hiko Sentais had left Wewak for Manila in order to re-equip and ferry new Type 3 fighters ('Tonys') to Wewak.

Welch's claims for 'Tonys' are highly suspect based on the above. Either he misidentified his victims or his claims were unjustified (one possible exception).

Rick Dunn

Re: George Welch and 20/8/43

Here's the quote from the book mentioned in my previous post.

Quote:

Close cover for 24 B-24s on bombing mission to Wewak. At 1100 hrs I saw from 15 to 20 bandits at 22000 ft over Wewak. The bombers I was escorting turned around and I stayed with them. They made another pass, and 15 or 20 in another group intercepted us. They attacked individually, and one of them collided with a B-24 which exploded over Wewak. I made three 90 degree deflection shots and one 0 degree deflection shot at four enemy aeroplanes - all "Tony" type. They all turned to the left and climbed except one, which turned right and dived. I saw three crash - one in the town of Wewak, one behind and one east of Wewak point.
One "Tony" dived on me from above and behind at about 22000 ft. I could not lose him with everything forward and 260 mph indicated air speed. By climbing at 250 mph, I lost him, I believe. I returned home at 24000ft at 1600 rpm and 20 inches Hg ( mercury ) and landed with 60 gallons of gas.
During the combat I saw a "Zeke" or "Oscar" spin in, crashing near the beach between Wewak point and the strip at Wewak. I claim three "Tony" aeroplanes.

I think the B-24 was probably B-24D-20-CO " Miss Carriage " 41-24207

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraf.../41-24207.html

Re: George Welch and 20/8/43

Great quote. However, the facts are somewhat different. There were no more than half a dozen 'Tonys' still flyable at Wewak. The a/c that crashed into the B-24 was a Type 1 fighter ('Oscar') flown by Lt. Takuo Ishiguro of 24th Hiko Sentai.

Emphasizing American reports without insight into the other side is the 'history' we have received until recently. It is time to move beyond that.

Rick Dunn