Seeking ID of Ju87B Crashed near Maastricht during WC of 1940
 

Hello,

Has anybody got a fix on the ID of this Stuka crashed in an orchard near Maastricht?

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...ht_1034wt_1081

Regards,

Re: Seeking ID of Ju87B Crashed near Maastricht during WC of 1940
 

Would it be near Argenteau, south of Visé, thus in Belgium?

Re: Seeking ID of Ju87B Crashed near Maastricht during WC of 1940
 

Hi Larry,

This is almost certainly:

May 11, 1940
8./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down by No. 607 Squadron Hurricanes during attack on roads east of Tirlemont and crash-landed in an orchard near Maastricht 4.35 p.m. FF Oberlt Lothar Lau (Staffelkapitän) and BF Uffz Felix Ochmanek captured badly wounded. Aircraft T6+AS a write-off.

The aircraft fuselage broke, and it lost half of one wing. That seems to fit nicely with the picture.

Regards, Pieter

Re: Seeking ID of Ju87B Crashed near Maastricht during WC of 1940
 

Pieter,

Another EOE Working Group member sent me two photos of this a/c. It IS Lau's a/c, no doubt about it. The code is T6+AS and it carries the 8 Staffel insignia on the nose. Now all I need is a photo of the tail (hopefully with a W.Nr.) to do a color profile for one of the EOE Project volumes of this a/c. If anyone recognizes other photos of this a/c, especially the tail, I'd very much appreciate hearing from them.

We have the full story of this crash from Lau.

Regards,

Re: Seeking ID of Ju87B Crashed near Maastricht during WC of 1940
 

From memory, there is another picture of this supposed Ju87 which shows a '332' or '322' on the fin. Sorry I can't get the pic at the moment.

Re: Seeking ID of Ju87B Crashed near Maastricht during WC of 1940
 

ClinA-78,

Thanks for your post. It is extremely important that I locate this image. I've run both 332 and 322 against the Ju87 part of the EOE DB, but don't get a hit (there are nearly 32,000 images in this DB). I very much hope that you will be able to locate this photo, as it will determine whether we can do a color profile or not of the a/c. I'm pretty sure that this hand a tail centered swastica, but am not certain.

Please keep me posted.

Regards,

Re: Seeking ID of Ju87B Crashed near Maastricht during WC of 1940
 

Hello Larry,

Allow me some days.

Best regards

Re: Seeking ID of Ju87B Crashed near Maastricht during WC of 1940
 

ClinA-78,

Do whatever you can. I appreciate your efforts on this. Meanwhile, if anyone else has any images of Oblt. Lau's crash-landing, I'd certainly appreciate knowing about it.

There is a further mystery about this a/c. Several photos in the ECPA collection show that 8./StG2 carried the well-documented 8 Staffel insignia on the port forward fuselage of their aircraft about the time of the Polish Campaign of 9.39. However, a clear photo of the starboard side of Oblt. Lau's a/c on May 11, 1940, shows the III./StG2 insignia on that side of the nose, NOT the 8 Staffel insignia. Whether the port side of his a/c also carried the III Gr insignia on that side, or the 8 Staffel insignia is not clear. Unfortunately, photos of Uffz Valerian Dill's a/c down on 15.5.40, taken a few days later, show no unit insignias painted on the plane at all, so it isn't any help. Does anyone know if 8./StG2 Stukas by May, 1940, carried the 8 Staffel insignia on the port side and the III Gr insignia on the starboard side, or had the unit switched over to using the the III Gr insignia on both sides of the nose by this time?

Any help here would be appreciated.

Regards,

Re: Seeking ID of Ju87B Crashed near Maastricht during WC of 1940
 

Hello Larry,

As promised.
Unfortunately, my memory led me to another crash which may has been already identified.

It is said this Ju 87 was shot down by AA of the Aubin-Neufchâteau Fort and was crash-landed in an orchard between Schophem (hamlet 'Schoppem'?) and Fourons-Saint-Martin (now Sint-Martens-Voeren); +/-8km E of Visé.

The author, Mr Pierre Galère from Visé, remembered also another Stuka crashed near the villa Joassart in Argenteau-Sarolay; 5 km S of Visé.

Sorry to be of little help.

ClinA-78

Re: Seeking ID of Ju87B Crashed near Maastricht during WC of 1940
 

Hi Clin,

Thanks for the (bad, but still) picture; I knew it existed but first time I see it. Confirms that this is a different and confirmed crash, other than the one of Lau that Larry is researching.
Location is now indeed fully confirmed: St Martens-Voeren, hamlet Schophem 2km west of it.

The next questions are then: which aircraft and which time/date.
The same source you refer to speaks about a (Stab)StG2 aircraft. I dare to question the stab, but StG2 is highly likely, since this was the unit most active over the Maastricht area on May 10, slowly moving west with the Panzers to Tirlemont on the 12th.

If I go through my list there are not that many StG2 Stukas on May 10-12 that might be a candidate. On May 10 no unknown emergency landing locations of StG2. (If the location is not 100% clear than it involved crashes where the crew was killed and the a/c destroyed, which is clearly not the case with this one). Idem May 12.

The most likely one I can find is this one (From Peter Cornwell TBoFTaN):
May 11
3./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down by Hurricanes of No. 87 Squadron over Maastricht 3.30 p.m. BF Uffz Heinrich Diegmann killed. FF Uffz Fritz Fiebranz captured wounded. Aircraft a write-off.

Since on the picture the individual letter indeed seems to be L as reported, this could then have been the T6+LL.

This would then make it (as suggestion to Peter):
3./StG2 Junkers Ju87B (442). Attacked by Hurricanes of No. 87 Squadron and then also hit by AA fire from Aubin-Neufchateau fort. Crashed at the road Ottegraeven between the hamlet Schophem and St Martens-Voeren, 3.30 p.m. BF Uffz Heinrich Diegmann killed. FF Uffz Fritz Fiebranz captured wounded. Aircraft T6+LL a write-off.

Still this is not 100% certain. If the info on Fiebranz being captured is correct I'm struggling with the fact that St Martens-Voeren (and the whole area east of the Meuse near Liege) were supposed to be in German hands since May 10. So still room for other interpretations!

Regards, Pieter