Luftwaffe losses - convoy KMS41 12/02/44?
 

Hello everyone

I'm looking for information about two Luftwaffe aircraft claimed as destroyed on February 12th 1944 while attacking Convoy KMS41. They were attacked by Wildcats of 881 Sqn flying from HMS Pursuer, which was acting as escort for the convoy.
Four Wildcats took off just before sunset, about 400 miles west of Cap Finistere. They attacked seven Luftwaffe aircraft, reported as He-177s and FW-200s, claimed two shot down and one damaged.
Can anyone provide information as to the identity of the Luftwaffe aircraft, and the details for the two claimed losses?

Many thanks.

Regards

Simon

Re: Luftwaffe losses - convoy KMS41 12/02/44?
 

From an NVM I have - Atlantik 12.2.44 Feindflug Ja - Ff Hpt.(changed to Maj. in ink) Walter Rieder, B Fw. Theo Trauth, B Ltn. Werner Herth, Bf Ofw. Josef Paul, Bm Ofw Wilhelm Herzhoff, Bs. Uffz Herbert Amelmann, Bs. Gef Werner Hohmann of 5/KG40 all missing later notified as dead. The Heinkel 177 book by Smith and Creek gives the w.n of this aircraft as 5695. The book also shows that F8+PN 5679 was hit by a NF on return crashing near Bordeaux NVM shows 5 killed and one injured, wn 5569 is shown as missing but I have no details, and 5554 returned heavily damaged with a wounded gunner but again I have no details. Condor F8+CR 7/KG40 crew of FhjFw Schairer is believed to have fallen to Mosquitos of 157 Sqd. and another Condor of 9/KG40 was damaged by a Mosquito,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: Luftwaffe losses - convoy KMS41 12/02/44?
 

Many thanks indeed for the information Brian, much appreciated.

Regards

Simon

Re: Luftwaffe losses - convoy KMS41 12/02/44?
 

Brian

The irritating thing with Classic 15 He 177 by Smith/Creek is that the text does not correspond entirely to the appendix 6.
Text page 121 say first loss was WNr 5695 piloted by Hptm Rieder. It was shot down by fighters but nothing more is known.
Appendix 6 on page 199 says WNr 5695 was damaged by fighters on 12 Feb 44 and no further details.
Text page 121 says the second loss was WNr 5679 F8+PN which was attacked during the flight out by night fighters and crashed in a forest.
Appendix 6 page 199 says WNr 5679 F8+PN and confirms this BUT adds pilot Major Rieder Gruppenkommandeur!!!
Text page 122 says third loss was 5569 and finally appendix 6 confirms this without any changes...
Text page 122 says the damaged aircraft was 5554 which returned with heavy damage. What has appendix 6 have to say about that? Well this time almost correct, even though the date is listed as 17 December and not the 12th.

Since the text pages sound very accurate I have changed the appendix to show this, but can I be 100%?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Luftwaffe losses - convoy KMS41 12/02/44?
 

Hello Stig,

As you say somewhat confusing I have assummed the report of Herr Rathel on page 121/122 of the Smith/creek book is correct. I have tried to see if the loss lists in the Griel/Dressel book help but only a little.
5695 in Griehl/D. is just shown in the loss table as '' II/KG40 Feb 1944 Jagerbeschuss'' however page 127 has that the Gp.Kom of II/KG40 as being lost in w.n 5695 and the NVM shows the loss of the Rieder crew as being on the 12-2-1944.
5679 Griehl/D. shows ''F8+PN 12-2-1944 NJ-Abschuss'' which seems to link to the loss of the crew of Oblt Ewers with NVM giving location as Pessec by Bordeaux. However the NVM shows Ewers crew as being from 4/KG40, it looks like the original loss date of 13-3-44 has been changed to the 12th but its hard to read, cause of loss is given as Jager. Normally I would expected the aircraft to have the 4th staffel code of M, the F8+FN 5th staffel code would normally link to the Rieder crew who the NVM show as 5th Staffel. The other thing is that the Rieder crew are shown as Ff, B, Bf , Bm, Bs, Bs, Bs. I wonder if the third Bs is from another crew possibly the wounded man from 5554. The second page of the NVM has Pessec b Bordeaux 4.Staffel Ogef Wolfgang Kanehl wounded Lw.Laz. Bordeaux. Unfortunately as you say the loss tables in Smith/C. puts Rieder in this aircraft which I assume is just an error.
5554 both Griehl/D and Smith/C. give this as II/KG40 Bruchlandung on 17-12-1944 in their loss tables but Smith/C. shows this a/c as landing with a wounded gunner on 12-2-1944 in the text. Either then the date or wn are wrong or 5554 was damaged on 17-12-1943 and flying again for the 12-2-1944.
5569 Smith /C. shows this as missing on 12-2-1944 following a fire, while Griehl/D has ''II/KG40 Jan.1944 Flugzeug vermisst'' but I assume the Jan. is a misprint and Herr Rathel got it right.
I did ask for the NVMs for I and II/KG40 and the one for the Rieder and Ewers crew does not give aircraft details which would have helped. No NVM was sent for the loss of the crew of 5569 so apart from what is in the two books I do not have anything on this loss,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: Luftwaffe losses - convoy KMS41 12/02/44?
 

Just checked the GQM for 17-12-1943 and He 177 wn 5454 of I/KG40 was destroyed in a collision at Fl.Pl.Wertheim ( with a Bf110 G-2 of II/ZG76) on this date, so it looks like 5554 for the 12-2-1944 is correct.