Mosquito MM678 crash near Tienen/Tirlemont
 

Hello to all,
On october 6th, 1944 this Mosquito crashed near the city of TIENEN (=Tirlemont in French) (B) On demand of an Australian familymember of the P/O William Searle VALE (RAAF) KIA, it would be very appriciated to know:
- the exact crash-place
- was the crash due to bad weather conditions, engine failure or ennemy attack , any claims?
- What was their mission?
&
In General:
Which was the authority in Belgium charged to investigate the crashes (Gendarmerie, local constable, surreté d'etat or....)?
What happened to the crew, burial and what about the debris of the plane
Does an official report and or photos exists and what is still available today ?

Many thanks for any help
Best regards,

redcap50

Re: Mosquito MM678 crash near Tienen/Tirlemont
 

Vale's casualty file states the aircraft crashed at vK1053, which according to this site:

http://www.echodelta.net/mbs/eng-translation.php

is

Latitude : 50.84574°
Longitude : 5.03748°

5 miles NE of Tirlemont.

Same file says the aircraft was on a night-fighter sortie to Bremen and Dortmund, no doubt supporting raids on those cities. They took off at 18:07 - not sure what times the raids were.

I've no matching Luftwaffe claim, however it seems another Mosquito reported shooting down a Ju 88 4 miles southeast of Diest, virtually the same place MM678 crashed. Sadly, I'd be willing to bet that "friendly fire" is a possibility.

Re: Mosquito MM678 crash near Tienen/Tirlemont
 

Hello Redcap ,

I have this as a probably crashsite :

Drieslinter wijk Meirbeek & Den Tranter

Regards

Alain57

Re: Mosquito MM678 crash near Tienen/Tirlemont
 

Hello Redcap

Vale 18/12/1916 Nathalia Victoria enlisted on 28/02/1941 , buried at Evere Brussels grave nr 4032 on 10/10/1944

Regards

Alain57

Re: Mosquito MM678 crash near Tienen/Tirlemont
 

Hello Mhuxt & Alain,
thanks you both for the prompt answer in connection with the mission, crashsite and the wargrave of William VALE.

What bothers me the most is that there is no Luftwaffe claim and that another Mosquito could be involved in that fatal accident !!
The serial number of that second Mosquito is it known, whas it in involved in the same operation .... and what about the JU-88 shot down 4 miles SE of DIEST (crewmembers wia, kia, werknr etc ?
Does the second Mosquito claims the victory on the JU-88?
Thanks again for the help
Greetings to everybody from the city of ZOTTEGEM

redcap50

Re: Mosquito MM678 crash near Tienen/Tirlemont
 

Hi Redcap,

There are a number of folks with much better information than myself about Luftwaffe losses over on the Luftwaffe discussion board of this site. They may be able to give you a definitive answer as to whether a Ju 88 was actually lost close to Diest or not.

The other Mossie was from 409 Squadron, part of 2 TAF, so almost certainly would not have been on the same mission as the 157 Sqn craft, which reported up to 100 Group of Bomber Command (even though it was a night fighter).

I haven't seen the combat report of the 409 Sqn Mosquito, though it will be available on-line for a fee, so can't give you an exact time. Will have been at or before 21.20 British time though.

Re: Mosquito MM678 crash near Tienen/Tirlemont
 

Hi Redcap ,

Perhaps this one of the Ju-88 you are searching after :


06-10-44 / /07-10-44
Werknumber 714460
Ju88G-
11 NJG1

Kurzec Albert Uffz. +
Achenbach Friedrich Gefr. +
Blumberg Günther Gefr. +
Bobikat Otto Ogefr. + 24/08/1922 Kaunas/Litauen , buried als unknown at Lommel Belgium , according to the Volksbund he was killed in the Liége area


06-10-44 / 07-10-44
Werknumber 711280
4R+DT Ju88G-1
9/NJG2

Fiedler Joachim Lt. pow
Günther Helmut Uffz. +
Kuhn Leo Uffz. + Didn't return from mission.

Regards

Alain57

Re: Mosquito MM678 crash near Tienen/Tirlemont
 

Alain,
once more, thank you for the information.....
I think it gets very complicated!!

With kind regards,
redcap50

Re: Mosquito MM678 crash near Tienen/Tirlemont
 

Redcap,

Just FYI: the lost Mosquito of 409 Squadron was MM574 with pilot P/O Francis E. (Hank) Haley and RO/navigator P/O S.J. (Fairy) Fairweather.
This Mosquito was damaged by debris from a Ju-88 they had shot down, suffered engine cuts and instead of a forced landing at Le Culot had to abandon the a/c in the Brussels area (8 miles east?).

It looks as though one of the Ju-88s Alain has mentioned can be attributed to MM574.

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Mosquito MM678 crash near Tienen/Tirlemont
 

Don't think 711280 comes into the picture. According to a post on Bert Hartmann's wonderful board, it was lost the following night:

Am 07.10.1944 um 19:32 Uhr von Gütersloh als Aufklärer mit Kurs 315 Grad gestartet. Letzter Befehl über Funk, in Mainz-Finthen zu landen, wurde um 20:50 Uhr quittiert. Flugzeug und Besatzung werden vermisst:


Ju 88 G1 -- 4R + DT -- Rufz. DR + RN -- Wnr. 711.280 -- Besatzung: Ltn Fiedeler, Uffz Günther, Uffz Kuhn -- III./NJG 2
9 NJG2 F /Deutsche Bucht/ X JU88G-1 711280 4R+DT 100 06/071044-Nachtaufkl, richtiges Datum 7/8 Okt, Aufkl, f, NJ Einsatz S Gütersloh 18h32

Fiedler joachiù ltn f kr.gefangen
Günther helmut uffz bf gefallen
Kuhn leo uffz bs gefallen