Found wreck
 

Hi All

This is a new place probably wreck of plane from JG 3 or JG 77.Location: Pomerania Dolice , 20 km east from Stargard. Today we started the first works to protect the artifacts and collect all the parts lying on the ground. First findings are, it is a plane BF 109 G 10 or 14 in painting Erla, yet we found no identification plates. But there is one clue I found part of the hull plating, cross and piece red number on the left, is in the pictures but it is hardly visible, but can it help? Later I send more photos.

Best Regards

Jarek

Re: Found wreck
 

Dear Friends,

Wrack - Raum: Dolitz-Blumberg-Doberpool - Pommeren (probably for 80% MIA in 1945) ,

One note and example by the way:
Wolfgang Beer ( 31-01-1945 Bf 109 G-14 ; Werk 780 676 ; 4./JG 3 )was normally from 5 Staffel Jagd Geschwader 77 but was MIA as member of 4./JG3 - Because this is near area on the Pommeren I think it could be one of his collegues from JG77 . ( Source: http://www3.volksbund.de/mitmachaktionen/letzte_hoffnung2/detail.asp?id=758 )

next example:
Pilot Walter Brandt from JG77 in JG3 :

"...On 10 February, the unit relocated to Pinnow near Kolberg in Pomerania (the same Airfiled as Rabeler Gunter -Pinnow). On 3 March 1945, Brandt destroyed 3 Russian tanks with bombs, strafed and set on fire 20 trucks and shot down two Russian Pe-2 twin-engine bombers and a LaGG-3 fighter. However, he was again shot down and wounded in aerial combat with a Russian Il-2 Sturmovik ground attack aircraft. He successfully managed a belly landing in his damaged Bf 109 G-14 (W.Nr. 464 278) near Augustwalde. Following the dissolution of I./JG 3 on 23 March 1945, Brandt was appointed Staffelkapitän of 7./JG 3. He held the post until the end of the war. ..."
Source: On 10 February, the unit relocated to Pinnow near Kolberg in Pomerania. On 3 March 1945, Brandt destroyed 3 Russian tanks with bombs, strafed and set on fire 20 trucks and shot down two Russian Pe-2 twin-engine bombers and a LaGG-3 fighter. However, he was again shot down and wounded in aerial combat with a Russian Il-2 Sturmovik ground attack aircraft. He successfully managed a belly landing in his damaged Bf 109 G-14 (W.Nr. 464 278) near Augustwalde (Pommeren area). Following the dissolution of I./JG 3 on 23 March 1945, Brandt was appointed Staffelkapitän of 7./JG 3. He held the post until the end of the war. ..."

Source: http://www.luftwaffe.cz/brandt.html
and
http://www.military-art.com/mall/aces.php?PilotID=360
Have You any information about members JG77 sent to units JG3 on the Pommeren in 1945 ???? (for example as Wolfgang Beer above)

This is only my personal remark - what do You think about it ?
As I checked list of side numbers with "red" colour and it was used by JG77.
See:
Examples:
01/04/45 Ofw. Bernhard
Brünjes 8./JG 77 Bf 109 G-14/AS
(787460)
red 7

09/02/45 Uffz. Josef
Neufels 10./JG 77 Bf 109 K-4
(332555)
red 5 Free chase,
near Bielitz / Schwarzwasser

21/01/45 Uffz. Anton
Brandl 11./JG 77 Bf 109 K-4
(332731)
red 2 Reason and area unknown

http://www.luftwaffe.be/miajg77.html

Some interesting details regarding quantity different type of aircrafts in units 1944/45:
"...
I. and III. / JG 3 Me 109 is equipped with G-14
IV.(Sturm) / JG 3 equipped with FW 190 A-8
I., II. and III / JG 26 equipped with FW 190 D
I.,II., III. and IV. / JG 27 Me 109 is equipped with G-6, G-10, K-2 and K-4
I.,II., III. and IV. / JG 53 Me 109 is equipped with G-10, G-14, K-2 and K-4
III. and IV. / JG 54 FW 190 equipped with A-8, and D-9
I.,II. and III. / JG 77 Me 109 is equipped with G-6, G-10 and G-14 ..."

Source (and more details) : http://www.luchtoorlog.be/me109g.htm

Best regards,

Kris

Re: Found wreck
 

Hi

Some new photos;
Please identify position of number: 1, 2, 7, 9, 16
Number 8 moore markings R 102B40704-01 & plate from spinner nr.9-1208732-0913
regards
J.

Re: Found wreck
 

Hi

I read the list of victories of Soviet pilots, I found this data;

1. Koptew Lew kpt. 20.04.45 Fw 190(?) Blumberg 4 km from Dolitz
2. Filatow Aleksandr kpt. 18.02.45 Fw 190 (?) Dolitz
3. Kuripka Nikolaj kpt. 15.03.45 Bf 109 (?) Falkenberg 8 km from Dolitz Do these data can be compared to the loss of German?

In my opinion, I would rule out the plane Bf 109 K
Best Regards
J.

Re: Found wreck
 

Maybe this map helps:

Pommeren 1945 -> Raum: Dölitz-Blumberg-Doberpool (Dobberphul)-Falkenberg

http://amzpbig.com/maps//2857_(1410)_Doelitz_i._Pomm._1934.jpg

all villages/dorf from this area can be place of last view aircraft and pilot.

Re: Found wreck
 

Hi All

At the moment not yet managed to locate the relevant werk number, among other probably little significant. Also there is the remains remote, it can leave the plane before breaking down? Local people know nothing about it. It is quite possible that the pilot is on this DRK list I know that there are graves of soldiers in the village DOLITZ and BLUMBERG I made a drawing illustrating the distribution of paint, maybe this helps to determine the unit?
PS
As to the red numbers are not sure, but rather a primer.

Best Regards
Jarek

Re: Found wreck
 

More plate;

1. Gerat nr 124162A-1
Werk nr 53686-40

2. XX nr 109.658-001h002
Werk nr R 660
jau

3. XX nr 109.659-004
Werk nr Y 941

4. Gerat nr 191903
Baureihe?
Werk nr X (1?)(0?)

5. Gerat nr XXX
Werk nr XXX
cpp

6. E16Z
Gerat nr 124-118B
Werk nr-
Anforder Ln 27213

Re: Found wreck
 

Hi Jarek,

Interesting discoveries you’ve made. Regarding the plates you posted, I have a little information to offer:

2 XX nr 109.658-001h002
werk nr R 660
jau

jau = Neue Kühler-u. Flugzeugteilefabriken Kurt Hodermann GmbH Werk Schlesien (Pelcznica), Aircraft components (Bf109) "coolers=109.658-001H002."

5 Gerat nr XXX
Werk nr XXX
cpp

cpp = Rheinmetall-Borsig AG, Werk Breslau, weapons/accessories.

Steve Sheflin

Re: Found wreck
 

Hi Steve
Thank you for your help.
Jarek

Re: Found wreck
 

Dears ,

Which unit or fabrik used following colours: RLM 75, RLM76 and RLM 84 - for painting Luftwaffe fighter-aircraft ?

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...7&d=1343672479

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...8&d=1343672496

I saw somewhere webside but now I can not find it - do you know this link to web side (about painting all Luftwaffe late war aircrafts) ?
We still trying ID with Jarek this wrack from Dolitz (on Pommern in 1945). Any sugestions ?

Max. speed on the plate shown here is 700 900 km/h:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...5&d=1343672440
maybe it is usefull info. to ID ?

BR

Kris