4.02.1943 airbattle in Filsum with B17F, 41-24593, "EL-LOBO" - German aircraft FW190 - who from LW ?
 

Dears Collegues,

I would like to ask You support and try write ID which Luftwaffe pilot
could be member of airbattle with B17 "EL-LOBO" in 4.Feb.1943 in Filsum (Niedersachsen in Germany).
Pilot had FW190 - look all story:

''...41-24593 B-17F Boeing built, assigned to group 19th Oct 1942 as one of the first to the 305thBG. Issued to 364th Sqn, fuselage codes WF-G 'George'. Carried noseart 'EL LOBO'. Lost with crew of Lt Cornelius A. Jenkins crew, 4 KIA, 6 POW. FW-190 rammed right (starboard) wing, bringing aircraft down. ...."
Crew EL-LOBO:
http://www.fold3.com/image/#161235115
http://forum.armyairforces.com/downl...?file=1;196384

LOOK THIS information:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...476#post162476

Thanks in advance for support !

BR
Kris

Re: 4.02.1943 airbattle in Filsum with B17F, 41-24593, "EL-LOBO" - German aircraft FW190 - who from LW ?
 

AFAIK this raid was opposed by JG 1 and NJG 1.

JG 1 suffered three total losses (100%), 1 aircraft damaged beyond repair (90%) and 5 aircraft damaged. The three pilots of the total losses were all killed, all other were unhurt.

Of these losses, the most probable fighter involved in this air collision with you B-17 was the Fw 190 A-4 WNr 0585 "yellow 7" flown by Uffz Rudolf Mayer of 12./JG 1. Mayer was killed when his fighter crashed near Filsum, 11 km E of Leer, after an air battle against B-17. He had before claimed a B-17 shot down east of Leer. According to the narrative in the book ""JG 1. L’histoire de la Jagdgeschwader 1 ’Oesau’", by Eric Mombeek (ISBN 2-9509485-2-9), he was hit by a gunner of his victim, lost control of his Fw 190 and crashed.

So German sources did not confirm the collision, but that Mayer was lost during an attack on a B-17. Witnesses from both sides did not see the same thing (as often), but my guess would be that if the B-17 survivors reported the collision, it probably happened and German witnesses missed it, while if the collision was reported by other US crew, farther than the action, it is less likely to have happened.

This day German pilots of JG 1 and NJG 1 claimed nine confirmed kills against B-17s and one unconfirmed (by Mayer). It is difficult to match their claims against the five American losses, except a victory by Hptm Dietrich Wickop of 4./JG 1 that was far before and away from the other claims and matches well with the B-17 41-24569 of 303rd BG (3 KIA, 7 POW).

Uffz Helmut Werner of 3./JG 1 for example claimed a B-17 17 km east of Leer at 1155 hrs and might have made this claim against "El Lobo" too. His claim was confirmed while Mayer's was not AFAIK.

Re: 4.02.1943 airbattle in Filsum with B17F, 41-24593, "EL-LOBO" - German aircraft FW190 - who from LW ?
 

Laurent big THANKS !!!! Soon I will scan article on base story old man which saw this battel in Filsum. This guy still alive.
Once again thank you .
Here is story - target the same -Emden- see page 11:
http://books.google.de/books?id=nlW5...JG%201&f=false

BR

Kris

Re: 4.02.1943 airbattle in Filsum with B17F, 41-24593, "EL-LOBO" - German aircraft FW190 - who from LW ?
 

Dears,

Here on the page 2 second position up there is Rudolf Mayer and his B17:
http://aces.safarikovi.org/victories...laims-b-17.pdf

I will try to write short letter for old man which saw and described air battle in Feb. 1943. His address and detail are available on the Internet :)
Can I ask somebody of You ask about DRK Bildliste with pilot photo ? (my e-mail: Huball25@poczta.fm )

I think about pilot: Uffz Rudolf Mayer of 12./JG 1
Now German pilot there is on Cmentary in Leer - Heisfelder Strasse.

Look place:
http://www.d-friedhof.de/friedhof-he...strasse-131110
I think there is right name of pilot from Fw190 , JG1.


Is it the same pilot ???:
Bf.109F-4
Unit: 8./JG 5
Serial: 15
Pilot - Fw.Rudolf Mayer. Arctic Front, Spring-Summer 1942-1943.
http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/231/pics/2_113.jpg

BR

Kris

Re: 4.02.1943 airbattle in Filsum with B17F, 41-24593, "EL-LOBO" - German aircraft FW190 - who from LW ?
 

Here is grave of Rudolf Mayer in Leer, see:

http://www.blog-stock.de/fliegerhors...ommen-ist.html

"...As early as 4 February 1943 was Sergeant Rudolf Mayer, member of 12./JG 1, in a dogfight with the best-known American bombers of World War II, B-17 Flying Fortress, east of Leer in a Focke-Wulf Fw 190 A-4 got killed. Which at the time wrote "loss report" says that Mayer was together with a B-17, still shooting, went to the ground. Rudolf Mayer, born on 1 acids October 1921, was in 1986 at Stickhausen, Jümme municipality in the district of Leer, rescued from his machine. ..."

His monument on Cmentary:
http://www.blog-stock.de/wp-content/...12-640x480.jpg
http://www.blog-stock.de/wp-content/...46-640x480.jpg

Infor from Tom Kracker web side:

"...Uffz Mayer, Rudolf "Pedro" , born: 10/1/1921 in Vienna, Austria , 12/JG-1 , Fw 190A-4 , Werk Nr.# 564 "Yellow 8 + O" (lost 2/4/43) , KIA 4 February, 1943 by B-17 return fire 11 km east of Leer. This AC was normally the AC of Fritz Timm. His one victory (n.b.) may very well have been the B-17 which caused his death. "n.b." means "unknown". This initialing appeared on the OKL Claims List. He crashed near his B-17 victim. Buried Leer Neuer Friedhof, Row 11 Gr 16. ..."

Source: http://www.aircrewremembered.com/Kra...anPilotsM.html

BR

Kris