Need loction of PRU pilot loss & capture on 16 August 1940
 

Hello,

Having completed our initial massive revision to the Luftwaffe Loss DB, the EoE Working Group is systematically undertaking a similar complete revision of all British losses/damages/casualties in the European war theater from 09.39 through 12.40. Our team has just completed dozens of revisions to 16 August 1940, and I noted the following:

"PRU, Heston

Spitfire I (PR) Type C N3116. Failed to return from photo-reconnaissance sortie over the Ruhr. Pilot Officer Alexander Boyd Corbett captured. Aircraft a write-off."


Does anyone have any information that would specify more precisely where this a/c crashed, and, if different, where the pilot was captured, info on cause of the loss, or photos of the downed a/c or the captured pilot?


Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Regards,


Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

Re: Need loction of PRU pilot loss & capture on 16 August 1940
 

Hi Larry,

Can not help with the location but Corbett's loss occurred on 15 Aug 40. The ORB (F.540) incorrectly states 16 Aug 40.

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

Re: Need loction of PRU pilot loss & capture on 16 August 1940
 

Andy,

Thanx. I've called Peter Cornwell's attention to your comments, and I'm sure that he will investigate this.

Regards,

Larry

Re: Need loction of PRU pilot loss & capture on 16 August 1940
 

Hello Andy and Larry

My interest is Bomber Command night of 14/15th August 1940 and for some strange reason some B C Loss Card dates are wrong. However, I have found the ORB to be correct. Querying my findings with the AHB, they say that two Loss Cards [swapped to other nights] are non-standard, two other BC Loss Cards are incorrect and confirm the ORBs pages I have, record the correct night with the date of the casualty loss, or when the crew actually went down in the aircraft, to be became POW shortly afterward and not dates as recorded in books and publications.

There are also two Bomber Command aircraft MSI (Movement Serial Indicators) in intelligence forms, for which the Squadron / Station / Group / Command ORBs, Orders, Raid Forms, offer no aircraft or crew.

Hence my question - What record are you (or others) using to say the PRU aircraft Loss date (or when the pilot became POW) in the ORB is wrong please? I presume it is the form completed when the POW returned?

Mark

Re: Need loction of PRU pilot loss & capture on 16 August 1940
 

Hello,

Our EoE research team of British losses is beginning to delve further into this one. I'm hoping that their efforts and those of anyone else on the TOCH board can help us resolve this.

The latest direct message I received:

"The PRU ORB F.540 in AIR 29/413, which I have, does indeed record the 16th. I presume the 15th comes from the F.78 for N3116 which is also the date given in the 'AEROMILITARIA' Spitfire series (Cat. E on the 15th and SOC later).

There is a problem with the PRU F.541 - and from memory with one or two other units. The PRU F.541 records in detail all SUCCESSFUL missions, in other words only those flights which returned to base. No mention of any lost aircraft or crews.

The PRU at this time was operating from at least three bases. We need to view the ORB for Heston airfield, from which base Corbett departed on his last flight. Also the Coastal Command ORB/Appendices and/or the 16 Group ORB/Appendices. A POW questionnaire would be useful although RossMcNeill notes he did not become a POW until the 19th. Definitely more work needed.

Any matching Luftwaffe claim ?"

Can anyone help our EoE team clear up any of these questions, or add anything to this discussion?

I've looked this one up in the Weiss Manuscript for 16 August, to see if there is any resolution on the German side of this story, but found nothing that we don't already know.

"At Heston a Spitfire of the PRU took off to carry out a photo reconnaissance of the Ruhr industrial area in Germany. The Spitfire did not return and it is most likely that it became embroiled in the air combats of that day and it may be one of those claims which were submitted without a specification of the location.
The pilot survived and became POW.

PRU Spitfire PR/IIIc “N 3116” P/O Corbett PoW
Aircraft missing."

Further research from British sources ought to be able to establish exactly the date and time that this a/c departed from Heston. Once we've accurately established that, we should be able to review German claims to see if there is any fighter interception or AA activity that relates along the expected flight route. Until we definitively establish the date for this action, there wouldn't be much use looking for German claims. Can anyone help who has a copy of the PoW questionnaire for Corbett? Getting his account of what happened could help a lot.

At the same time, those with collections that contain photos of PRU Spitfires crashed in Germany or France during the summer of 1940 might be able to turn up something.

Your further assistance is appreciated. We should be able to get the story on this one significantly further clarified.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

Re: Need loction of PRU pilot loss & capture on 16 August 1940
 

Hi Larry and Mark,

I have been unable to find any corresponding Luftwaffe fighter claim for Cortbett's loss on the 15th.

The date of the 15th comes from the Form Orange and Form Mauve.

The Form Orange gives the objective as Ruhr District M25. I believe M25 was the Dortmund-Ems Canal Aqueduct.

I too would be interested in a copy of Corbett's POW questionnaire or any photos related to his loss.

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

Re: Need loction of PRU pilot loss & capture on 16 August 1940
 

Andy,

It looks like the next step here is to get a copy of the PoW Questionnaire. Who can help with that ?

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

Re: Need loction of PRU pilot loss & capture on 16 August 1940
 

Hello Larry,
If you can wait till next week I can do it then. Maybe someone can do it sooner, if so, please post so as not to duplicate work. Have you found the file ref?

Regards,
Bruce

Re: Need loction of PRU pilot loss & capture on 16 August 1940
 

Hello Andy and Larry

Andy's reference to M.25 is interesting as one of the Bomber Command Executive Orders for Operations Night 14/15th August 1940 to RAF Scampton states:-
1 A/c will operate alone and is detailed to carry out recco. and take photographs of M.25.

However, the intelligence indicates that M25 could not be located.

When Bomber Command could not get the photographs, further instructions were usually issued for a photo recconnaisance flight.

Mark

Re: Need loction of PRU pilot loss & capture on 16 August 1940
 

Hello Andy, Mark and Dennis,

Appreciate all of your efforts to help out on this one. Before I send Dennis off on a hunt for this PoW info, does anyone out there already have a copy of thePoW questionnaire for Pilot Officer Alexander Boyd Corbett in hand? If not, does anyone know the file number where this can be found at the NA? One of the members of our EoE research team has some general file numbers for these, but we don't know in what specific file Corbett's report would be found.

Who can help, or at least guide the search for this info?

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator