Fw 190 crash on GQM list that didn't happen?
 

Dear all,

I'm a bit puzzled by an entry at the GQM losses returns, see entry 25 at the attachment: on 26th february 1943 Fw 190A-4 Wnr 0586 of 12./JG1 crashed at Grootebroek Holland.

However this entry was crossed without any other corrections (at a later date) added, so apperently the crash never occurred?

I wonder how they got the specific info of the original entry.
Has anyone seen similar crossed out entries in the GQM returns and know what that might mean?

Does anyone perhaps have a kind of history on file of Wnr 0586 to check what really happened?


Thanks in advance for your effort,
Hans

Re: Fw 190 crash on GQM list that didn't happen?
 

Hans, crossed out losses are fairly common, usually because they're duplicate entries. Note the handwritten entry to the right of the crossed out entry - 'k/6.3.43'. The letters usually refer to amendments, so find entry 'k' for that date. Here is my entry for that machine:

FW 190A-4, 140586, Zuzic, Oblt. Herwig, , IV. (I.), Stab IV., JG 1, , , TE+GH, , 26-Feb-43, Notlandung due to engine damage., WNr. 586 per loss, WNr. 0586, 80% per Prien, et al., Lw.Bfh.Mitte/Nordsee, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.14; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, X.2, p.87; Prien & Rodeike, JG 1 & 11, I, p.597, , Grootebroek, 85%, F, , ,

Re: Fw 190 crash on GQM list that didn't happen?
 

Hans, the amendment note on report 6-3-43 states ' Streiche ganz da identisch Ifd. no 70 2-3-43. Streiche 1 Flugzeug total (Fw190 wn 0586). The amendment also has the unit as 12/NJG 1 ? I assume this means the original unit identity and % damage was incorrect.

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: Fw 190 crash on GQM list that didn't happen?
 

Hi, all

This specific incident ended up creating two loss records and two corrections in the GenQu lists.

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=138466

I am so happy that we started out by registering all corrections when we created the loss database. Until now there are more than 14000 of them - and we still have a way to go with Scools and other units.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Fw 190 crash on GQM list that didn't happen?
 

Andreas, if only - I didn't realize the significance of these initially and I sent some of the microfilms back to my source without making note of them. Lesson learned, but you're spot on with your comment. When I went through my copies of these for the umpteenth time I also noted losses which appeared to be aircrew but no details of the aircraft were given. Surprisingly, as new published material has been coming out, the 'Kampfflieger Ritterkreuztager' volumes from Urbanke's 'Start' publications being one of note, along with Matti Salonen's contributions here, I've been amazed how many of notations from these sources I've been able to match with these reported casualties from the Gen.Qu. reports. (And do the 'freezing to death' entries for the LW ground troops creep anyone else out? OMG, how many Soviet troops met this same fate?)

Re: Fw 190 crash on GQM list that didn't happen?
 

Hello Jim, Brian and Andreas,

Thank you all for your contributions to enlighten what the crossed out entry really meant.

Andreas, the correct spelling of the location is Grootebroek, misspelled in the GQM list as Grooterbrök.

Thanks again,
Hans