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4.(F)/Nacht and OOB Luftflotte 4 Apr.-Jun.43
Hello friends,
according to www.ww2.dk, night recce Staffel 4.(F)/Nacht operated from Saporoshje-Ost 2.43-9.43, i.e. in the area of Luftflotte 4. Indeed, two losses were in the area of that air fleet during Apr.-Jun.43 (21.4.43 and 18.6.43). But in order of battle of Luftflotte 4 on 3.Aug.43 (closest data in the German multivolume history of the WW2) 4.(F)/Nacht is absent. Is it means that Staffel in question was removed before Aug.43 and probably replaced by 1.(F)/Nacht? And more general question. Is the OOB of Luftflotte 4 for some dates between 1.Apr. and 30.Jun.43 available? I know about the OOB 17.May.43 published by Alfred Price. But in that OOB all recce units are omitted. An allotment of units between I., IV. and VIII.Fliegerkorps is interesting also. Best regards, Andrey |
Re: 4.(F)/Nacht and OOB Luftflotte 4 Apr.-Jun.43
Andrey -
4.(F)/Nacht returned to the Reich in July to rest, refit and convert to the Ju 88 and Ju 188. It was not again identified at the front until 2 Mar 44 when it was at Baranowicze/E Poland. [Sources: Dierich – Die Verbände der Luftwaffe 1935-1945; Défieux, Jean-Pierre - Répertoire des Unités Aériennes de la Luftwaffe 1935-1945: Reconnaissance Aéronavale (Nanterre, privately published, n.d. (c 1988-90?)). Jul 43 [Luftflotte 4 with: I. Fliegerkorps, IV. Fliegerkorps, VIII. Fliegerkorps, Comandamentul Aviatiei de Luptã (Romanian Combat Aviation Command), 102. Repülődandár (Hungarian 102d Air Brigade), Seefliegerführer Schwarzes Meer. Assigned units on 5 Jul: Stab/FAGr. 4, 2.(F)/11, 2.(F)/22, 2.(F)/100, 4.(F)/122, 1.(F)/Nacht, 4.(F)/Nacht, Westa 76, Stab/NAGr. 1 (with 1.(H)/41, 2./NAGr. 16?), Stab/NAGr. 6 (with 5.(H)/32, 2.(F)/33), Stab/NAGr. 9 (with 1.(H)/21, 7.(H)/32), Stab/NAGr. 14 (with 5.(H)/11, 5.(H)/41), II.,III./JG 3, Stab, I.,II.,III./JG 52, Stab, I.,II.,III./St.G. 2, Pz.Jäg.St./St.G. 2, Stab, I.,II.,III./St.G. 77, Stab, I.,II./Schl.G. 1, Führer d. Panzerjägerstaffeln (5 Hs 129B-2 Staffeln), Störkampfgruppe d. Lfl. 4, Stab, I.,II.,III./KG 27, 14.(Eis.)/KG 27, Stab, II.,III./KG 55, 14.(Eis.)/KG 55, I./KG 100, plus a large number of liaison, transport and med-evac units along with Romanian and Hungarian air units]. I do not guarantee that this Luftflotte 4 Kriegsgliederung for 5 July 1943 is complete because I can no longer identify the source I got it from. I think it may be pieced together from several different sources, most of them primary. I have never encountered a full-blown Luftflotte 4 Kriegsgliederung for the period after 5 Jul 43 to the end of 1943. L. |
Re: 4.(F)/Nacht and OOB Luftflotte 4 Apr.-Jun.43
Larry, thank you a lot! Useful info as usual.
Quote:
Andrey |
Re: 4.(F)/Nacht and OOB Luftflotte 4 Apr.-Jun.43
Only this one, Andrey:
31 Jan 43: Luftwaffenkdo. Don reported the following assigned units: 2.(F)/22, 3.(F)/100, 4.(F)/Nacht, Stab/NAGr. 10, 3.(H)/21, 2.(H)/31, 5.(H)/32, I./JG 52, Behelfs-NJ-Schw., III./St.G. 2, Pz.Jagd-St. 51, Störkampf-Gr. Lw.Kdo. Don, I./KG 1, Stab,I.,III./KG 3, 14.(Eis.)/KG 27, plus several transport and miscellaneous units - total strength 270(109). L. |
Re: 4.(F)/Nacht and OOB Luftflotte 4 Apr.-Jun.43
Thank you again, Larry!
So Feb.-Jun.43 for Luftflotte 4 still terra incognita, and the reconstruction unit by unit is inevitable. By the way, have you a plan to publish the volumes about recce units like the bomber and Stuka/GA books? And a specific question. On 26.Jun.43 Stab/NAGr12 had a loss in Kertsch (Crimea). Why that Stab was in Crimea thereat? Each field army had one NAGr under command, and AOK17 had NAGr9. Why the second NAGr was in AOK17 area? Andrey |
Re: 4.(F)/Nacht and OOB Luftflotte 4 Apr.-Jun.43
Andrey -
Stab/NAGr. 12: April – September 1943: returned to Germany to reorganize as a single-seat reconnaissance Gruppe with Messerschmitt Bf 109s - locations uncertain, but probably at Jesau/East Prussia initially and then moved to Herzogenaurach in Bavaria. Therefore, my guess is that aircraft lost may have been turned over to another unit when the Stab left for the Reich in April. Did you find this loss in the Gen.Qu.(6.Abt.) Verlustmeldungen, in a book or where? I do not have a note on it. Re publishing, I have not decided yet. L. |
Re: 4.(F)/Nacht and OOB Luftflotte 4 Apr.-Jun.43
Quote:
Sorry, the date is 23.Jun., not 26. My typo. Fw Walter Kripahle and Lt Alois Niewiers were wounded. Maybe you know whether Lt Niewiers was from NAGr12 really? Quote:
Andrey |
Re: 4.(F)/Nacht and OOB Luftflotte 4 Apr.-Jun.43
Andrey -
All I have is a correction to the spelling. His name was Alois NIEWIERA and he was promoted to Oblt. on 1 March 1944. This is from the Dienstaltersliste der Offiziere der Deutschen Luftwaffe nach dem Stande vom 1. August 1944, page 400. He was a Truppenoffizier (A 1). Unfortunately, this document does not list unit assignments. If I run across his name in the future, I will let you know. L. |
Re: 4.(F)/Nacht and OOB Luftflotte 4 Apr.-Jun.43
Larry, thank you once more!
Andrey |
Re: 4.(F)/Nacht and OOB Luftflotte 4 Apr.-Jun.43
Hi.
If you are interested in the units assigned to Luftflotte 4 for this period I have that information, including aircraft types operated and strength. For example, 20.02.1943: Nahaufklärungsverbände: Stab/Nahaufklärungsgruppe 1 3./11 5./11 Stab/Nahaufklärungsgruppe 6 7./13 5./32 2./33 Stab/Nahaufklärungsgruppe 9 1./21 7./32 Stab/Nahauklärungsgruppe 12 1./10 2./10 1./41 Stab/Nahaufklärungsgruppe 14 2./16 5./41 Fernaufklärungsverbände: 2.(F)/100 3.(F)/10 2.(F)/11 2.(F)/22 3.(F)/121 4.(F)/122 1./N.St 4./N.St Jagdverbände: II./J.G.3 III./J.G.3 Stab/J.G.52 I./J.G.52 II./J.G.52 Behelfs-Nachtjagdverbände: 10./Z.G.1 Nah-Nachtjagd Schwarm Lw.Kdo.Don Zerstörerverbände: II./Z.G.1 Schlachtverbände: Stab/Schl.G.1 (Umrüstung Deblin-Irena) I./Schl.G.1 (Gruppenstab,1. and 3. Staffel Umrüstung Deblin-Irena) II./Schl.G.1 (Gruppenstab, 6. and 7. Staffel Umrüstung Deblin-Irena, only 5. and 8. Staffel operational under Lfl. 4) Kampfverbände: I./K.G.1 Stab/K.G.3 I./K.G.3 III./K.G.3 III./K.G.4 I./K.G.27 III./K.G.27 14.(Eis.N.)/K.G.27 Stab/K.G.51 I./K.G.51 III./K.G.51 II./K.G.53 Stab/K.G.55 I./K.G.55 III./K.G.55 Störkampfstaffeln Luftflotte 4: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. Lehrgruppen für Nachtflugausbildung with 2 Gruppen fo Luftflotte 4 Sturzkampfverbände: II./St.G.1 Stab/St.G.2 I./St.G.2 II./St.G:2 III./St.G.2 I./St.G.3 Stab/St.G.77 I./St.G.77 Kampfgruppen z.b.V.: z.b.V.5 z.b.V.9 z.b.V.50 z.b.V.102 z.b.V.I./172 z.b.V.40 z.b.V.35 z.b.V.20 z.b.V.23 In addition 50 complete crews in Lfl.4. Schleuse Schleppstaffeln: 3 DFS 230 Staffeln 3 Go 242 Staffeln Luftlandeeinheiten: Stab L.L.G1 I./L.L.G.1 IV./L.L.G.1 17./L.L.G.1 I./L.L.G.2 II./L.L.G.2 G.S.Kdo (in addition 2 DFS 230 detached to IV./St.G.2) Korps-Transportstaffeln: Fliegerkorps I Fliegerkorps IV Fliegerkorps VIII Minensuchverbände: 3./1 Kurierstaffeln: 4 6 7 5 10 A Küsten-St.Krim F Verbindungsstaffeln: 2 56 57 58 59 62 67 69 Wettererkündungsstaffeln: 76 Seefliegerverbände: 3./125 Seenotdienstverbände: 8. Seenotstaffel Verbündete Luftwaffe: Ungarische 1. Fernaufklärungsstaffel Ungarische 1. and 2. Jagdstaffel Ungarische Kampfstaffel Ungarische Transportstaffel Slowakische Jagdstaffel 13./JG 52 For further specific information contact me off board. Regards, Andreas B |
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