Uffz Albert Links 5/ZG76 29.5.40
 

Good morning, i was wondering if anybody could help clear up a problem with this incident with 5/ZG76.

On the 29th May 1940 Bordfunker Uffz Albert Links was injured following combat north-west of St.Omer. His a/c belly landed near St-Andre-sur-Orne ( According to Peter Cornwell's The Battle Of France Then And Now pg.393. ) A/c code given as M8+EN.

However during my subsequent research on this loss i have found two photographs in John Vasco's book Zerstorer Vol 1 Pg.33 which suggests this a/c may have been M8+DN.
Could anybody clarify the correct code for Links a/c. It could be possible the Werknummer on M8+DN in white towards the rear of the fuselage may be known if somebody has photograph nearer the downed aircraft!

Kindest regs,
Steve.

Re: Uffz Albert Links 5/ZG76 29.5.40
 

Hi Steve,

I am afraid that the area where the Bf110 crashed is not good.

There are about 350 kms between St-Omer (Pas-de-Calais) and Saint-Andre-sur-Orne !

On 29 may battle area is in northern France and not in Normandy where there is also a St-Omer.

St-André-sur-Orne is false.

Bertrand

Re: Uffz Albert Links 5/ZG76 29.5.40
 

Hello Steve and Bertram,

1) The recent photo of M8+DN just sold on eBay was acquired by the EoE WG Bf110 team and was just received Tuesday. The W.Nr. may be 3105, but it just isn't clear enough to be certain. I'm pretty sure about the first three numbers. WNr 3105 doesn't appear on any of my loss lists.

2) The 29 May loss report regarding Link's casualty is almost certainly M8+EN or M8+DN, and there is a a problem with the location cited by Peter C for M8+EN. Bertrand has pointed out the same problem that I have. We're in the process of distributing the new photo of M8+DN to our team and hopefully will be resolving this one soon. The starboard engine had been shut down and feathered prior to the belly landing of M8+DN, and it broke its back, so it would have never flown again. Both a/c display a single victory tab on the fin. We have photos of both sides of both of these a/c and at least one will be one of our color profile subjects if we can securely identify it. One of these two a/c probably doesn't appear in the current loss lists for 5 Staffel, but I'm presently not sure which.

I likewise have problems with the identification of the intact FL of two other 5 Staffel Bf110s during 1940: M8+FN, and what appears to be M8+LN, both of which don't have secure matches in the Luft loss reports. M8+FN made a good landing on what must be a French beach, almost certainly during the BoB. It may be the loss near Boulogne on 04.09.40, but our current loss report doesn't really match the photos. What I think is M8+LN may have FL near a German airfield sometime in the spring of 1940, with very minor damage, and may never have been reported further up the line to appear in the German QM loss reports. I have only one port-side view of this one, and if anyone has other photos of this one, I'd appreciate being notified. Both props are badly bent, so the engines were turning when it made a belly landing.

Anyway, Steve, we're well aware of the problems matching the photos to the losses.

If anyone has any other info or photos that would help resolve this, please get in touch. Unfortunately, the captions on the several photos of M8+DN and M8+EN that have appeared on eBay over the years give contradictory, or somewhat misleading info as to the correct identities. The new photo of M8+DN has a handwritten caption on the back that will probably take one of our German experts to decipher, as it's not very legible. I'm not sure that it will help resolve this problem, however.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

Re: Uffz Albert Links 5/ZG76 29.5.40
 

Having gone through various sources for about the last hour, I feel I should provide my views on the point raised by Steve.

First of all, it's just the one photo on page 33, centre, of M8+DN.

Now, having trawled through all the loss/damage tables in 'Zerstörer' by Peter Cornwell and myself (published in 1995), I find the following:
a) The only belly-landed Bf 110 of 5./ZG 76 was on 29th May 1940. There were no others reported as such;
b) There were no submitted reports of a belly-landing, such as shown, during the Battle of Britain by 5./ZG 76.
The rider to the above is that not all crash/belly landings were reported up the line - the many pics of 2N+HN that rolled into a tree at the edge of a field in May is testament to that!

The photo that I used in 'Zerstorer Vol 1 Pg.33' (for those who may be unaware, this is a different work to the 1995 book) had the date on the reverse. Hence my matching the photo to a reported belly-landing of the same Staffel on 29th May 1940.

It would appear that since our joint book came out in 1995, Peter has received information that the fuselage code of the belly-landed Bf 110 of 5./ZG 76 on 29th May 1940 was M8+EN.

I cannot speak for Peter's source, as I do not know it. However it would be interesting for this discussion should he be able to add to it.

Re: Uffz Albert Links 5/ZG76 29.5.40
 

Here is the photo that I used of M8+DN that Steve mentions in his first post:
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/533/qx0z.jpg

Re: Uffz Albert Links 5/ZG76 29.5.40
 

Hello,

I'm in the process of getting the caption for M8+DN translated. Will get back on that.

Regarding my note above about M8+FN that FL apparently on the French Coast, the seller of one of the many photos of this on eBay indicated that this took place in Sept., 1940. This a/c also had five victory tabs on the fin, indicating to me that this might be the a/c of Fw Karl Langenberg. This a/c has a W.Nr. in white on the rear fuselage, but it isn't readable on any of the photos that I have. Can anyone provide this? It also carried two large flags painted on the side below the cockpit windows, one of which appears to be Belgian and the other probably French.

This a/c FL with little apparent damage on a sandy beach with low, grass- covered berm in the background, but no reference points such as headlands, cliffs or structures visible in the background that might help identify the site. Someone else may have photos that show some kind of reference points in the background that could help identify where it came down.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

Re: Uffz Albert Links 5/ZG76 29.5.40
 

Hi,

but there are two photos showing as one of the airmen of M8+EN has his wounds dressed alongside the wreck. It seems that this Bf110 belly-landed close to a German-controlled airfield. NVM gives 20 km NW of St.Omer.
On 11.5.40 a Bf110 of II./ZG76 was crash-landed in the area of St. Trond-Namur.

Regards

Robert

Re: Uffz Albert Links 5/ZG76 29.5.40
 

I would like to express my appreciation for all the replies to my appeal, to Bertrand for the location detail on the supposed landing place of St-Andre-sur-Orne? to which i wasn't aware of the distance or other St Omer!
Also many thanks to Larry and John for the information on M8+EN and M8+DN possibilities for being Links a/c. I guess Peter Cornwell may have to look at this one and hopefully offer some clues as to where he obtained the match up to the a/c code and location?
Everybody else who contributed to this thread im particularly grateful for helping, we may crack this one yet!
Any further information or photographs of II/ZG76 aircraft attributed to have been lost during the French Campaign would be most welcome, particularly Robert with M8+EN showing the wounded airman.

Kindest regs,
Steve.

Re: Uffz Albert Links 5/ZG76 29.5.40
 

Hi Larry, is it possible to show the image of M8+DN of which the EOE Group obtained off Ebay recentley. I must have missed that one.
If its possible i would be most grateful.

Best regs,
Steve.

Re: Uffz Albert Links 5/ZG76 29.5.40
 

WNr. 3105 does appear in the losses in 1943. Just for grins, I've listed all the losses I have from the WNr. 310x grouping.

Bf 110C-4, 3101, Münich, Ltn. Hans, , III., 8., ZG 76, rote C, 2N+CN, , , 04-Sep-40, Stfhr. Crew POW due to Luftkampf with Spitfires from 234 Sq. (P/O Horton & Sgt. Klein). Engine damage., Bf from 7./ZG 76. Bf 110D-0 per Ring., Kanal, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #2)-Vol.3; Vasco/Cornwell, Zerstörer, p.191; Mason, p.350; BoB, T&N, p.623; Goss, LW Fighters BoB, p.201; Ring, ZG 76 loss list, Mankau/Petrick, Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210 & Me 410, p.324, Black Patch Hill, Patching, West Sussex, 100%, F, Bf Uffz. Adolf Käser, 14.45, Messerschmitt AG at Augsburg in Dec-39
Bf 110C-2, 3102, Kästner, Ltn. Hans-Joachim, , II., 6., ZG 26, gelbe E, 3U+EP, , , 18-Aug-40, POW due to Luftkampf with RAF fighters. Notlandung. Bf KIA., Dup WNr., Lfl.2/Kanal, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #1)-Vol.2; Vasco/Cornwell, Zerstörer, p.184; Ring, ZG 26 loss list; Mason, p.283; BoB, T&N, p.590; A.I.1.(k) Report No. 272/1940, Mankau/Petrick, Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210 & Me 410, p.324, St. Mary's Marsh Blackmanstone, Newchurch, 100%, F, Bf Uffz. Walter Kaffenberger, , Messerschmitt AG at Augsburg in Dec-39?
Bf 110C-4, 3102, Proske, Oblt. Rüdiger, , I., Stab I., ZG 26, grüne B, U8+BB, , , 18-Aug-40, Gr.Adj. Crew POW due to Luftkampf with Spitfires from 64 Sq. (S/L MacDonnell)., Dup WNr., Lfl.2/Kanal, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #1)-Vol.2; Vasco/Cornwell, Zerstörer, p.183; Ring, ZG 26 loss list; Mason, p.283; BoB, T&N, p.589; A.I.1.(k) Report No. 272/1940, Mankau/Petrick, Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210 & Me 410, p.324, Dering Farm, Lydd, 100%, F, Bf Uffz. Hans Möbius, , Messerschmitt AG at Augsburg in Dec-39?
Bf 110C-4, 3105, Roth, Ltn., , IV., 10., NJG 101, , , , , 19-Oct-43, Crew killed due to midair collision with Bf 110E-2 WNr. 2551., bei Ammerndorf per loss., Lw.Bfh.Mitte/Nachtjagd, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/777, Flzg.Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.10; BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/784, Flzg.Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.217; Balss, Deutsche Nachtjagd, p.151, Mankau/Petrick, Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210 & Me 410, p.324, Steinbach/Ammersee, 100%, H, Bf Gefr. Gedde, , Messerschmitt AG at Augsburg in Jan-40
Bf 110C-2, 3108, Koops, Fw. Hermann, , III., 9., ZG 76, gelbe E, 2N+EP, , , 09-Sep-40, POW due to Luftkampf with RAF fighters during sortie to London. Bauchlandung at sea. Bf KIA., Bf 110D-0 per Ring., Kanal, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #2)-Vol.3; Vasco/Cornwell, Zerstörer, p.231; Mason, p.376; BoB, T&N, p.635; Ring, ZG 76 loss list, Mankau/Petrick, Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210 & Me 410, p.324, 8.5km vor Newhaven, 100%, F, Bf Uffz. Christian Weiher, 19.00, Messerschmitt AG at Augsburg in Jan-40