Which Volume do I need to find two fighters?
 

Hi All

I believe that most of you will know about these books but in my venture to find out about two German Fighter planes that were shot down by the British, in a dog fights in the sky’s over where my Dad had been evacuated to West Sussex, I have found a set of book called “Luftwaffe Crash Archive” Volume 1-6, I have read that they are supposed to have records of every Luftwaffe plane shot down.

Can any one tell me the Volume that has the records of the two German Planes that were shot down over West Sussex, Horsted Keynes/Haywards Heath?

We know that one of the pilots who were shot down was flying a Messerschmitt 109 and crashed landed and was killed on the 30/09/1940.

He was buried in the local church yard; some time in the 1960’s the body of the German airman was exhumed and taken to the Cannock Chase German Military Cemetery at Staffordshire, U.K.


Information we know about the pilot;

Name; Alfred Sander

Rank; Sergeant

Born; 19.07.1917

Death; 30.09.1940

Troop Unit; Fighter Wing 27 / 3 . Relay (JG27/3)

Service Number; 60327/15

Shot down 09.45 am

Place of Birth; Possneck

We believe that the second plane shot down was a also a Messerschmitt 109, but have no other details. We believe it was shot down on the same day.

Many thanks in advance

Kindest Regards

John Sleeman

Re: Which Volume do I need to find two fighters?
 

Volume 5 covers 28th September to 27th October 1940. I can confirm that it has the loss details of Alfred Sander on page 524, although not a lot of info considering the severity of the crash.

Re: Which Volume do I need to find two fighters?
 

Thank you Clint that is a great help, are there any photos?

Regards

John

Re: Which Volume do I need to find two fighters?
 

Sorry, no it does not. :)

Re: Which Volume do I need to find two fighters?
 

...and if there is no photo, photos do not exist if this crash unless someone has one hidden in the attic!

Re: Which Volume do I need to find two fighters?
 

Hello John!

I´ve found these informations:

Source:Jagdgeschwader 27
Die Dokumentation über den Einsatz an allen Fronten
1939-1945 by Werner Girbig/Hans Ring
Motorbuch Verlag ISBN 3-87943-215-3

Losses over England on 30.09.1940:

I.Gruppe

Unteroffizier RICHARD Sander 3.Staffel missing
Oberleutnant Hans Bertram 2.Staffel missing

II.Gruppe

Unteroffizier Robert Hammer 4.Staffel POW
Leutnant Herbert Schmidt 6.Staffel POW

III.Gruppe

Oberleutnant Karl Fischer 7.Staffel POW

Herzliche Grüsse aus Altshausen,

Wolfgang

Re: Which Volume do I need to find two fighters?
 

Hi, I presume this is the second aircraft you are interested in? Nigel Parker has given me permission to use his research material in case anyone asks.

30/9/40 09.45 hrs.
Me 109 E-4 3763 S I/JG 27
Nettlefold Field, Bell Lane, Nutley, nr Haywards Heath, Sussex. Q.8746.
Following fighter action, aircraft dived into the ground at speed and was entirely destroyed.
Markings: not decipherable. Airframe built by B.F.W.Regensburg.
Armament: two 20 mm cannon and two MG 17.
Pilot: Lt Hans Bertram 60325/2 +. CC 1/18.

Kind regards,

Melvin

www.aircrewremembrancesociety.co.uk

Re: Which Volume do I need to find two fighters?
 

[quote=Melvin Brownless;194823]Hi, I presume this is the second aircraft you are interested in? Nigel Parker has given me permission to use his research material in case anyone asks.

30/9/40 09.45 hrs.
Me 109 E-4 3763 S I/JG 27
Nettlefold Field, Bell Lane, Nutley, nr Haywards Heath, Sussex. Q.8746.
Following fighter action, aircraft dived into the ground at speed and was entirely destroyed.
Markings: not decipherable. Airframe built by B.F.W.Regensburg.
Armament: two 20 mm cannon and two MG 17.
Pilot: Lt Hans Bertram 60325/2 +. CC 1/18.

Kind regards,

Melvin

Melvin

Thank you so much for that information, that is great, I felt that I was not realy getting any were but this information is great.

Thank you so much.

Kindest Regards

John

Re: Which Volume do I need to find two fighters?
 

Stabsschwarm I./JG27 Messerschmitt Bf109E-4 (3763). Shot down in combat with Hurricanes over East Grinstead and crashed at Nettlefold Field, off Bell Lane, Nutley, near Haywards Heath, 9.45 a.m. FF Oberlt Hans Bertram (Gruppenadjutant) killed. Aircraft 100% write-off.
Small fragments of airframe excavated by the Wealden Aviation Archaeological Group in 1974. Surface fragments recovered by the Kent Battle of Britain Museum (now held by the Hawkinge Aeronautical Trust) and also by the London Air Museum. Site excavated by Malcolm Pettit in 1981 and cockpit components and assorted wreckage recovered. Piece of gold neck chain and parachute fragments picked up at the time of the crash held by Andy Saunders.
BERTRAM was flying as wingman to the Gruppen Kommandeur, Hptmn Eduard NEUMANN on this sortie. Only partial remains of BERTRAM were recovered & identified from his name marked on a small portion of shirt. He was originally buried in Plot 1094 in St James’ Churchyard, Nutley, but later reinterred in Block 1, Grave 18, of the Soldatenfriedhof at Cannock Chase.

3./JG27 Messerschmitt Bf109E-4 (3630). Shot down in combat with Hurricanes over East Grinstead and crashed into a pond on Cinderhill Farm, Horsted Keynes, near Haywards Heath, 9.45 a.m. FF Uffz Alfred Sander killed. Aircraft 100% write-off.
Site investigated by the London Air Museum and components recovered at time of crash donated by local landowner.
SANDER was flying as a wingman to an unidentified 3 Staffel pilot on this sortie. Originally buried in Plot 1, Grave 1, of a reserved area in St Gile’s Churchyard, Horsted-Keynes, he was later reinterred in Block 1, Grave 17, of the Soldatenfriedhof at Cannock Chase. There is a nice photo of him on p377 of Vol. 4/I of Die Jagdfliegerverbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945 by Jochen PRIEN et al.

Re: Which Volume do I need to find two fighters?
 

Peter,

Thank you, more great information, I am starting to get quite a bit now this is great.

Kindest Regards

John