All-black Bf 109
 

On 29 May 1944 Lt. Benjamin M. Hagen of the 368th FS/359th FG shot down a Bf 109 in the vicinity of Stettin. Lt. Hagen reported that his victim was painted black overall.

Does anybody know more about this strangely painted 109?

Re: All-black Bf 109
 

Allied pilots reported all-black enemy machines in the MTO as well, frequently and in broad daylight. Unfortunately they were another of those phenomena that were "seen" rather than actually photographed or documented by Field Intelligence Teams. A bit like He 100s in the Battle of Britain...

Re: All-black Bf 109
 

not seen the Eagle Editions JG 300 history.. ?
chapter 9 of Vol I of the Lorant/Goyat opus has pics of an all-black 109 of III./JG 300 lost on a day sortie June 44- there are other pics and accounts from JG 300 pilots who flew what were essentially all-black machines as the Wilde Sau units transitioned to day ops..

Re: All-black Bf 109
 

Yes, all-black 109s did indeed exist. I found this out reading Luftwaffe Im Focus #4 which has a number of photographs of an all-black Bf 109 G-6/AS of I/EJG 2, photographed in December 1944. But that's the only one I've seen so far.

FalkeEins, could this particular machine have been a JG 300 aircraft or could it have been of any of the night fighter groups, equipped with 109s?

Re: All-black Bf 109
 

To discuss the possibility that there were all-black Bf 109s is a thing, to believe to the report of a pilot which stated to have shot down an all-black Bf 109 is quite another...

The reliability of such reports is absolutely low, mainly due to many objective factors that in a combat does not allow to see accurately and with precision colours and markings of aircraft you are shooting at or fighting against.

I have personally read dozens of such reports knowing perfectly which aircraft were involved and the camouflage & markings of them all, yet I've never read a correct, leave alone accurate description of such aircraft from the pilots involved, only sensations, glimpses or passing impressions.

The difference is that some of them admitted such limits, while others put on paper as certainties their "impressions", and that gave way to the many gaudy painted Luftwaffe aircraft that apparently infested the skies over Europe, starting with the ominous "all-yellow Fw190" reported in Clostermann's book ...

Re: All-black Bf 109
 

Alright, first of all let's just agree on the fact that all-black 109s did exist. And as FalkeEins stated, they were encountered and shot down during daytime too. It clearly happened, let's just accept that first :)

Here is one of several photos from Luftwaffe Im Focus. This aircraft is all-black.

http://skyraider.allaboutwarfare.com.../black_109.jpg

Clostermann is a story on its own. He describes green&ocre Luftwaffe aircraft with yellow bellies. Personally I think that after staring into a blue sky for an hour, everything else gets yellow thanks to the brain trying to compensate(*). So these aircraft Clostermann describes were just standard 74/75/76 camo machines, with some yellow added by Clostermann's brain :)
The all-yellow Fw 190 undoubtedly had a different-from-usual paintscheme, but was most likely all blue RLM 76 or perhaps primer-only RLM 02.


So let's just assume for a moment that Lt. Hagen wasn't colour blind and indeed shot down an all-black 109. Do any day losses of (Nachtjagd) units near Stettin match with his claim? I unfortunately have not much information of Luftwaffe losses (besides JG 26), but I hope somebody else on this forum might know more about this.



(*) My bedroom happens to have purple curtains and when waking up the walls in the house look green, until I open those curtains, then they're white again! The brain does funny things! :)

Re: All-black Bf 109
 

Reschke lists two 109Gs from JG 302 lost this day. I have no idea how they were painted.

Re: All-black Bf 109
 

May 44 is time when JG 300 turn from wilde saw to day fighting. Indeed no lost recorded for JG 300 on 29th of May in J.Y.Lorant books.

Re: All-black Bf 109
 

Thanks guys!


John, are there any details of the time and location of these losses?
According to www.ww2.dk JG 302 was based at Völkenrode at this time, which was nowhere near Stettin.
I'll have a dig through ww2.dk to see what units defended the Politz oil refineries at that time.

Re: All-black Bf 109
 

Locations listed as St. Polten and Völkenrode near Braunschweig. No times.