17 March 1944 - III./JG 2
 

Gentlemen,

on 17 March 1944 III./JG2 lost one Fw190 in aerial combat northeast of Chartres and one more that was shot down while taking off from Chartres airfield, both in the afternoon.

On the other hand claims for a certain and a probable P-47 are mentioned in officcial records although in the known claims records, in particular the BA held Abschussfilme, there is not a trace of these claims.

Both 8th and 9th USAAF lost two P-47s each over France on this date. While no claim for an Fw 190 from 8th USAAF units is known ( to me at least ), I wonder whether a 9th USAAF FG filed claims for the two Fw 190s lost by III./JG2.

The only other trace of an aerial combat involving German fighters over France on this day leads to I./JG 26 which reported battle damage to one of its aircraft on this day.

Can anybody enlighten me which German unit claimed the a/m P-47s, or the other way round, how and where the 4 P-47s from 8th and 9th USAAF were lost.

As usual - any substantiated hint would be gratefully appreciated.

KR

Jochen Prien

Re: 17 March 1944 - III./JG 2
 

The only 8th AF FC mission on the 17th was a strafing sweep attacking Soesterburg and Chartres A/F. No air claims, nor air loses reported but two reported lost to flak - both 78FG near Reims (Coutlyn) and Beauvais (Pompetti)

Regards,

Bill Marshall

Re: 17 March 1944 - III./JG 2
 

Two Ninth Air Force groups operated on 17 March. The 366th and 368th Fighter Groups supported Eighth Air Force bombers. No claims were made but two 366th P-47's were lost. White flight of the 390th Fighter Squadron was bounced by 11 FW 190's near Montfort and two pilots were downed. Lt. Michael L. Smith, flying White 2, evaded capture while Lt. Joseph C. hair, White 4, ended up as a prisoner.

Kent

Re: 17 March 1944 - III./JG 2
 

Sorry, there is a mistake in my earlier post. The 366th and 368th Fighter Groups supported Ninth Air Force medium bombers, not Eighth Air Force heavy bombers.

Kent

Re: 17 March 1944 - III./JG 2
 

Many thanks, Bill and Kent. Do you then have any US fighter claims matching the two III./JG2 losses around Chartres ?




KR




Jochen Prien

Re: 17 March 1944 - III./JG 2
 

During the bounce on the 390th Fighter Squadron, Lt. Maurice L. Martin, White 3, fired two short burst at a FW 190 but filed no claim. No other pilots were mentioned as having fired at an German planes.

On the Eight Air Force side, only the 78th and 361st Fighter Groups made any claims and all were against German aircraft on the ground. No aerial claims were filed.

Kent

Re: 17 March 1944 - III./JG 2
 

So we have some conflicting information. What we know from German sources is that 11 Fw 190s from a so far u/i unit had contact with the enemy and claimed 1 P-47 and another probable.

III./JG2 suffered losses in the Chartres area, whereas the two P-47s lost by 366th FG fell near Lisieux and Bernay respectively, both at quite a distance from Chartres.

On the other hand we have no allied claims for two Fw 190s in the Chartres area, neither from US nor from RAF fighters.

And now ?

KR

Jochen Prien

Re: 17 March 1944 - III./JG 2
 

In my opinion on 17 march 1944 the 366th Fighter Group was in combat with the III./JG2 for two reasons:
1) According to the German sources the aerial combat occurred in the afternoon and indeed the White flight of 390FS was bounced at 15:10.
2) The Americans were attacked near Montfort which - according to the map attached to the MACR of the shot down pilots - seems to match Montfort-l'Amaury (about 40 Km N.E. of Chartres). The two American pilots were last seen in this area and both, evidently, managed to get away before falling (Smith crash-landed 1 mile North of Livarot, near Lisieux, while Hair crashed at Courbepine, four miles north-west of Bernay). Martin probably hit his target (albeit he could not get visual confirmation in the heat of combat) as the III./JG2 lost one Fw190 in aerial combat right northeast of Chartres.

The airport of Chartres was attacked by 361st FG in the afternoon of the 17 march 1944. Fifteen P-47s of the 374th Squadron remained at altitude acting as top cover while the 375th and 376th squadrons carried out the low-level attack. Two enemy aircraft were claimed destroyed on the ground (1 Bf.109 and 1 u/i a/c) along with 4 damaged (1 Ju 88, 2 Bf.109s and 1 u/i a/c). Maj. Merritt spotted a taxiing Bf.109 which he hit repeatedly bringing it to violent halt. According to Merritt's combat report, " after passing over, I observed the (enemy aircraft) ground looping to the left, and the landing gear collapsing as the plane was enveloped in a cloud of dust and smoke ".
In my opinion, it is possible that the aircraft claimed by Maj. Merritt was the Fw.190 of III./JG2 shot down while taking off as, probably, it had already pulled up the wheels off the ground when he was struck (or so the Germans saw as they reported a FW-190 shot down in combat).
Hope this helps.

Best regards.

Marco

Source:
Yellowjackets! The 361st Fighter Group in WW II
Fighter Units Pilotes of the 8th Air Force
Losses of the US 8th and 9th Air Forces
MACR

Re: 17 March 1944 - III./JG 2
 

Many thanks, Marco. We have arrived at the same conclusion on LRG and I think that most of the issue has been resolved. Thanks again to all who contributed with their input.

KR

Jochen Prien