Information on Soviets losses
 

Hello

On 10/03/43:soviets losses towards 8.00h in the region of Alakurtti
four Pe-2 (80BAP)
five hurricanes(152 IAP)
two Il-2 (828 SchAP)

18/03/43:soviets losses towards 5.15h in the region of Alakurtti
four Il-2 (828 ShAP)
four hurricanes (152 IAP)
one I-16
one Lagg
one P-40

and towards 13.00h Murmanbahn
three hurricanes (966 IAP)

Which Staffeln and pilots of JG5 are responsible for these very big losses?
Absolutely nothing in the Osprey N°124 and little concrete things in the Mombeek's book (vol.2).
But does anyone among you have more specific information,or nothing is known as usual with JG5?

thank's in advance

michel

Re: Information on Soviets losses
 

18.03.43 Fw Heinz Beyer of 8/JG 5 claimed in Il 2, Lt Horst Berger of 8/JG 5 claimed a P 40. Time 16.30 and 16.35 respectively.
Source: Dr Jochen Prien et al: Die Jagdfliegerverbände etc...Teil 12/I

Re: Information on Soviets losses
 

Michel, there is a book in the works on the air war in the Murmansk region that will be coming out by Brian Cull. This will have a lot of your answers.

Re: Information on Soviets losses
 

Hi guys

Thanks for the plug, Nokose, but my book covers 1941-1942 period only.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Information on Soviets losses
 

One of the two 7 VA, 828 ShAP IL-2 losses on March 10, 1943 was:

IL-2m3, S/N: 1872932
Tactical number: '4'
Pilot: ml.Lt. Constantin Mikhailovich Kotlyarevskii
Gunner: Sgt. Evgenii Petrovich Mukhin KIA

Downed in dogfight after attacking Alakurtti airfield, recovered in 1975, now it is on display as a memorial. Not much, but I hope it helps a bit.

Gabor

Re: Information on Soviets losses
 

Thank's guys for your efforts.

By deduction and analysis,perhaps, but perhaps the 4 and 5/JG5?,but in fact,it seems we never have the answer.

It's frustating to known some Soviet losses(verifiable and verified) but not the opponents!unlike other situations such as the 13/3/43:17 claims for JG5 and only two verifiable Soviet losses!

I have not identified the I-16,Lagg and P-40 (18/03)

michel

Re: Information on Soviets losses
 

I have recorded following Soviet losses at Alakurtti on the days indicated:

10 March 1943:

Pe-2 (80 BAP, 261 SAD): Capt Popov, Pavel Fedorovich; Capt Popov, Konstantin Nikolayevich and Lt Brizhatyuk, Boris Safronovich - all MIA.

Pe-2 (80 BAP, 261 SAD): Sn.Lt Moskalets, Vladimir Sergeyevich; Sn.Lt Batov, Anatoliy Sergeyevich and kr-ts Babinkin, Aleksei Sergeyevich. Batov and Babinkin apparently KIA, but at least Moskalets became POW (possibly also Babinkin), and was later dispatched to Germany, where he joined VVS ROA (Vlasov´s Air Force).
Moskalets (re-) defected to the Soviet side on 3-4 July 1944 (see my post of 7 Jan 2017, which remained without answer: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=47041)

Pe-2(80 BAP, 261 SAD): Jn.Lt. Skvortsov, Vasiliy Ivanovich (KIA)

Pe-2 (80 BAP, 261 SAD):star Kupenko, Semen Seenovich (KIA)
- the other crew members of these two last mentioned Pe-2 apparently survived (Skvortsov and Kupenko were possibly in the same Pe-2 aircraft)

I have got only one Hurricane (152 IAP, 259 IAD) shot down on 10 March 1943 at Alakurtti, pilot Serov survived.

Five Il-2s were lost (all 828 ShAP):
- personal losses: Sn.Lt. Kukushkin, Nikolai Pavlovich; Lt. Korotkov, Nikolai Ivanovich; Jn.Lt Levitskiy, Zinoviy Abramovich and Jn.Ser. Talalayev, V.G.; Sn.Lt. Krivosheyev, Viktor Pavlovich; Jn.Lt. Kotlyaryevskiy, Konstantin Mikhajlovich (WIA) and Ser. Mukhin, Yevgeniy Petrovich in tactical "4", c/n 1872932 (as mentioned by Gabor; the monument Il-2 is erected at the factory in Samara). All other Il-2 crew members KIA.

Losses at Alakurtti 18 March 1943:
Three Hurricanes (152 IAP, 259 IAD): star Kharlamov, Nikolai Sergeyevich and star Zagorodnikov, Ivan Sergeyevich (both KIA), Jn.Lt. Ryabchenko, M.N. survived.
Two Hurricanes (966 IAP, 122 IAD PVO) - pilots so far unknown.

609 IAP lost one Hurricane (pilot OK).
In 20 GIAP one P-40E crash-landed at Luostari (Petsamo/Pechenga), which however is very far from Alakurtti!!

Likewise, 197 IAP lost one I-16 at Gremyakha, which is also rather far away from Alakurtti.

I have no Il-2 losses this day - is the date correct??

Carl

Re: Information on Soviets losses
 

08/03/43?? that day,I have only a hurricane of 760°IAP Sm N.A.Sinitsyn(K) reason?
You mean 18/03/43?
that day I have:four of 152°IAP
N° 519
N°545
N°938
BN823

Sgt G M Sukhov of 152°IAP (belly landing)

for the P-40 of 3./20.gwIAP (JLt M.E.Bytschkow) probably by Horst Berger(Petsamo)
one Il-2 of 17.gwSchAP (Kpt.Peretjagin) probably by Heinz Beyer(Petsamo)

for Il-2 of 828th ShAP,maybe mistake of dates and confusion between 10/03 and 18/03

michel

Re: Information on Soviets losses
 

Sorry for the misprínt in my post above ("8" instead of "18" March) - now corrected!

BTW, Lt Nikolai Aleksandrovich Sinitsyn in Hurricane BE559 (2./760 IAP) force-landed at Pälkäjärvi 8 March 1943 and became POW in Finland. His aircraft was only slightly damaged, and was evacuated by Finnish troops.