Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

A clutch of 5 Luftwaffe documents have been forwarded to me with the sender asking that I identify a peculiar abbreviation that I have never seen before. Essentially, all 5 pages consist of a formal request from 3./schwere Flak-Abt. 573(v)Gn. to decorate a certain low-ranking Luftwaffe 8.8 cm gun commander (Geschützführer) for shooting down nearly a dozen Liberators and Fortresses over the Budapest area in 1944.

The strange abbreviation appears several times whenever the unit designation is mentioned and for all of the 40 years I have spent researching the Flakwaffe (Flak Branch) in surviving Luftwaffe documents, I have NEVER seen it before. The abbreviation is the suffix attached to the end of the unit's designation, specifically "Gn". Does anyone have any idea what it might mean? It's not to be found in any of the Wehrmacht/Luftwaffe abbreviations handbooks.

Thanks,

L.

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

Hi,

mil. shortword Gn. - Gegner, but without to seeing the setence ....

regards

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

It is but only as Gebirgsjäger Nachrichten Abt and it can't be that.

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

Flakabteilung xyz (o) - ortsfest
Flakabteilung xyz (v) - variabel


regards

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

Thanks uschu and Zippy, but neither of those fit.

Keep 'em coming, folks.

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

Good evening ushu

As much as I know, the (v) stands for: verlegbar.

Horst Weber

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

Larry, I am not sure that anyone here will be able to solve an abbreviation riddle that you cannot, but one can but try :) What if Gn stands for Grenadier? Perhaps this is a nonsensical suggestion, but a list of surviving flak claim reports does suggest to me that the abbreviation following the usual designation (v) for a towed unit could refer to the organisation which provided the personnel for the unit, see below:

"Schwere Flak-Abteilung 573 (v) Gn (Einsatz Ungarn: Budapest)...

Gemischte Flak-Abteilung 593 (v-RAD) (Einsatz Frankreich II./F./593, 13. Febr. 1944 Chartres; 1. und 4./593, 27. Juli 1944 Rumily sur Seine)"
deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/item/SQSGIFWPFV3LCQ2MA62IJTVREIESDTMT

The (v-RAD) designation clearly refers to a unit formed with Reichsarbeitsdienst (RAD - Reich Labour Service) personnel, see the following link:

RAD-Flakbatterien der Wehrmacht 1943-1944
wehrmacht-forum.de/index.php?thread/4312-reichsarbeitsdienst-fad-rad/&pageNo=1

Since I do not know of any organisation in the Nazi state which would have been referred to by the letters Gn, I assume that the Schwere Flak-Abteilung 573 could have been staffed with Grenadiere from other units within the Budapest garrison. However, it is worth reiterating that this could just be a loose assumption.

Regards,

Dan

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

Hi

verlegbar give sense . verlegbar, variabel, tansportierbar to ortsfest, standortfest. Those words i found in "Zeitzeugenberichten usw.

regards

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

Another term could be Gleisgebunden= rail-mounted

but just a guess

regards

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

Dan H. wrote in part:

Many thanks for giving this a "go", Dan. The abbreviation for Grenadier was "Gren" and, if pressed for space such as on a situation map, "Gr".

I will reply to your most recent e-mail in a couple of days.

Best,

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

Horst W. wrote in part:

This is the best guess yet, even though it does not appear in any of the terminology and abbreviations handbooks. Horst-Adalbert Koch's 1954 682-page masterpiece on the Flakartillerie does not show it either and if it were to appear anywhere, it would be there. Neither does the Feldpostübersicht, which is fastidious about giving the full designation of any and all units of the Wehrmacht. Further, the Eisenbahn Flak units used the suffix "(Eisb.)" or "(Eis.)" and Eisenbahn-Transport-Flak units used "(ETr)". Also, Gleis does not seem to have been abbreviated. For example, "Gleiskette" was abbreviated as "Gleisk."

However, "Gn" almost certainly has to do with the unit's transport capability or requirements, its weapons or its employment. Accordingly, your "guess" may be correct.

Thanks!

L.

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

gn=gezogen, i.e. by Sonderkraftfahrzeug (SdKfz) ; pick one of the many variants

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

(v) at least today means "V-gestellt"= Verteidigungsfall gestellt. Which means the unit is only to be activated in war time. In peacetime the equipment is garaged and will be manned by core experienced career soldiers filled up with majority of peacetime trained reservists.
This is an important designator when unit will be employed/tasked with difficult missions....

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

Larry, I am glad to be embarrassed by a clearly incorrect guess this time, especially since it looks like we have the answer!

As always, I will eagerly await your message :)

Egbert, I think gezogen should be right. Gleisgebunden is a term never used in the context of wartime anti-aircraft units, as Larry has mentioned above, so gezogen is the best match suggested so far.

In documents of wartime flak units, (v) is always contrasted with (o) - ortsfest. (v) is therefore verlegbar or verlegefähig - capable of being moved, or towed. This is not to be confused with (mot.) - motorised. Flak units with a (v) designation had guns which were capable of being moved, but often these units did not in fact have prime movers, so they could not easily move to a different sector. On the other hand, ortsfest units were incapable of any movement, just as any other artillery equipped with guns on fixed mountings.

Regards,

Dan

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

Dan H. wrote in part:

The moving was done by Flak-Transportbatterien, of which there were well over 100 at peak, with 3 or 4 of them attached to each Flak-Division and several others to each Flakkorps.

L 2763 (1 Mar 38) Flak-Transport-Batterie (mot.)
Had 3 officers, 1 official, 203 men with
7 cars, 10 motorcycles, 2 heavy motorcycles with sidecars, 9 light trucks, 44 medium trucks
and 49 self-propelled prime movers (i.e., Hanomag halftracks of various size and weight).

L.

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

It is great to be able to exchange messages with a living encyclopaedia, Larry! I have not seen the tables of organisation and equipment for flak batteries, but indirect evidence from Flakwaffe strength documents at Freiburg strongly suggests a few of them had their own prime movers, see example below:

On 1 March 1943 Luftgaukommando Rostov in the southern USSR had 8 Flaktransportbatterien, with a serviceability rating in both the vehicle (Kraftfahrzeugmäßig) and tactical (Taktisch) categories rated as 'voll' - fully serviceable. The same command had 15 batteries of 8,8 cm guns, of which 9 had a vehicle (Kraftfahrzeugmäßig) serviceability rating 'voll'. The other batteries had no rating in this category, niether 'bedingt' - limited serviceability, nor 'nicht' - unserviceable. The material (Materiell) serviceability ratings were 8 batteries 'voll' and the remaining 7 'bedingt'. Therefore all 15 batteries had at least some guns, and 9 of these batteries had a full complement of vehicles. This suggests to me that some flak batteries were provided with organic prime movers, while others, perhaps those further from the frontline, had to rely on the Flaktransportbatterien. It is also possible that a battery's complement of vehicles did not render it fully mobile without additional transport support from a Flaktransportbatterie, but I think that is less likely, since some batteries would have been expected to closely follow the movements of front-line units.

Dan

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

Dan H. wrote:

Ummm.............I think where we have to be cautious is in how the Wehrmacht defined and applied the term subordination. There were 4 levels of subordination: (1) administrative; (2) tactical; (3) disciplinary; and, (4) economic (i.e., for supplies, accommodations, messing, etc.). Since this can get complicated when the levels of subordination are rarely given each time a particular unit is mention in the primary and secondary source material, I usually try to get around this by using the word "attached" and let the reader form his/her own opinion. The opposite of "attached" in this context would be "belonged to" or "organic to".

So, Flaktransportbatterien could and did organically belong to Luftgau- and Feldluftgaukommandos, the Gen.Kdo. of a Flakkorps and, to a somewhat lesser extent, to a Flakdivision, but never to a Flakregiment. As the tactical situation dictated, the Flaktransportbatterien were frequently detached and reattached from one command level to another so they could perform their task.

Example:
Flak-Trsp.Battr. 96/VIII
16 May 42: (schwere) Sarabus/Crimea under Luftgaukdo. Rostow. (TsAMO 500/12476/Akte 2)
11 Jul 42: being allocated to 10. Flak-Div. (TsAMO 500/12476/Akte 13)
18 Apr 44: attached to 17. Flak-Div. in W Ukraine - ordered disbanded this date. (TsAMO 500/12476/Akte 3)
24 Aug 44: S Poland assigned to I. Flakkorps. (TsAMO 500/12476/Akte 70)

L.

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

I would like to challenge these criteria.
First, in military terms I would not speak of subordination but of different chain of commands or what you have outlined further below when you addressed attachments, assignments etc.

From my experience there are only two levels existing,
1. Truppendienstliche Unterstellung (engl.:Administrative Control) and
2. Taktische Unterstellung. (engl.:tactical level of command)
What you describe as administrative is subsumed under Truppendienstliche Unterstellung to which the tasks for logistic/ supplies belong to, or accommodation matters, medical and so on. This includes the civilian ranks who partially work in these domains and who report to the military commander.
Disciplinary power of course falls also under the level term Truppendienstliche Unterstellung.
This classification is standard through the command levels with variations. The higher the command, the more complex is the job description and distinct are changes to TOE ( different naming, like Quartiermeister for Div and Corps etc etc etc)

Taktische Unterstellung can vary often and is dependent on the mission. That includes Luftwaffe Flak-units that may even be assigned to Army echelons. But -note- they always stay under their Luftwaffe Truppendienstliche Unterstellung- chain of command

Re: Strange Luftwaffe Abbreviation
 

Egbert wrote as a quote from Larry's entry of 5 February:

I stand 100% by what I wrote, Egbert, as I have seen it written countless times in the German documents that I began working with in 1977 and still work with. But I have also seen it written many times as you have it, Einsatzliche Unterstellung and Truppendienstliche Unterstellung. This was the short form, I guess, or one of the ways was used earlier in the war and the other later in the war.

L.