Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/index.php)
-   Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8)
-   -   Help with research? Can anyone assist? (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=56480)

Staffordshire Researcher 3rd March 2020 17:43

Help with research? Can anyone assist?
 
Hi Everyone,

I have found myself researching an air raid which occurred in the small town of Leek, Staffordshire on the night of March 11th 1941. It seems unlikely that Leek was targetted but rather presented itself as an unfortunate 'target of opportunity' for bombers heading to, or having missed, Liverpool, Manchester, or perhaps Stoke on Trent. Could anyone help me, or guide me towards where I might try to find out which Luftwaffe units might have been over that part of the NW Midlands on the date in question??? Do such records exist? Thanks.J

Nick Beale 3rd March 2020 18:55

Re: Help with research? Can anyone assist?
 
The Luftwaffe's daily situation report is online here (in German): https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/...de/grid/zoom/1
It should tell you what they thought they were attacking.

Chris Goss 4th March 2020 11:48

Re: Help with research? Can anyone assist?
 
III./KG 27 reported attacking Stoke on Trent but there were 135 aircraft attacking Birmingham that night and I can see no mention of Leek

Staffordshire Researcher 4th March 2020 14:48

Re: Help with research? Can anyone assist?
 
Gosh guys thanks for such quick responses, that's a pleasant surprise that some info is out there!! If its not taking the pee, there are SO many things I would like to ask!!?? Chris, are III./KG27 reported attacking Stoke on the 11th March, as Birmingham seems a little too far south for them to have strayed so far yeah?? Second, were there any raids planned that night for more northerly targets like Manc or Liverpool do you know, cos if not I can concentrate on the Stoke attackers as likely culprits!!?? Is the info you have given me taken from the archive that Nick suggested above, or is there any easier English Language sources?? John

Nick Beale 4th March 2020 16:55

Re: Help with research? Can anyone assist?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Staffordshire Researcher (Post 283974)
Gosh guys thanks for such quick responses, that's a pleasant surprise that some info is out there!! If its not taking the pee, there are SO many things I would like to ask!!?? Chris, are III./KG27 reported attacking Stoke on the 11th March, as Birmingham seems a little too far south for them to have strayed so far yeah?? Second, were there any raids planned that night for more northerly targets like Manc or Liverpool do you know, cos if not I can concentrate on the Stoke attackers as likely culprits!!?? Is the info you have given me taken from the archive that Nick suggested above, or is there any easier English Language sources?? John

Stoke is mentioned as an alternative target and the relevant section (which is as much as I'm translating!) reads:
2240 and 2303 hours: Stoke-on-Trent by two bombers with 1 SC 100 and 24 AB. 1 powerful explosion as well as two major fires and explosions in the South West of the town. Fires were seen in factory buildings.
Times are GMT+1 (the same as British Summer Time which was in force then).

SC 1000 is a 1000 kg high-explosive bomb.

AB was a container (»Abwurfbehälter«) which split after being dropped to release numerous smaller HE, anti-personnel or incendiary bombs (which could be of sizes between and 1 and 10 kg). These containers came in various sizes but this report doesn't specify which. If the two bombers had 12 each, this suggests they carried the 50 kg version on this raid.[/list]

Chris Goss 4th March 2020 16:58

Re: Help with research? Can anyone assist?
 
Birmingham was main effort that night with Southampton. Minor attacks on Portsmouth, Plymouth, Bristol, Worthing and Stoke. Sources are varied but in German

Staffordshire Researcher 4th March 2020 23:15

Re: Help with research? Can anyone assist?
 
That's really brilliant guys, thanks!

Nick, you quote:

"2240 and 2303 hours: Stoke-on-Trent by two bombers with 1 SC 100 and 24 AB. 1 powerful explosion as well as two major fires and explosions in the South West of the town. Fires were seen in factory buildings."

My research at Leek so far suggests one payload of incendiaries being dropped from one plane (non of which set fire to buildings), and four HE bombs dropped from another plane with a spread of only around 50metres (so I'm guessing dropped from low altitude?), non of which detonated on impact, and I'm assuming were diffused later. This happened 10-10.30pm March 11th.

This does not sound like the payload of the two Stoke planes yes? Would you say then that I might be looking at stray Birmingham raiders? Was 4 HE bombs a typical payload at that time??

John

Nick Beale 4th March 2020 23:39

Re: Help with research? Can anyone assist?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Staffordshire Researcher (Post 283999)

My research at Leek so far suggests one payload of incendiaries being dropped from one plane (non of which set fire to buildings), and four HE bombs dropped from another plane with a spread of only around 50metres (so I'm guessing dropped from low altitude?), non of which detonated on impact, and I'm assuming were diffused later. This happened 10-10.30pm March 11th.

This does not sound like the payload of the two Stoke planes yes? Would you say then that I might be looking at stray Birmingham raiders? Was 4 HE bombs a typical payload at that time??

John

No it doesn't sound like the reported bombs at Stoke.

4 x SC 250 HE bombs (250 kg each) was a common load for a Ju 88's wing racks.

Were they strays? Quite likely but we don't have any definite evidence (nor does another of these reports mention the September 1940 bombing of Exeter that wrecked the house my Dad and Grandparents were living in). Stray planes used to unload bombs all over the place.

Staffordshire Researcher 5th March 2020 16:47

Re: Help with research? Can anyone assist?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Beale (Post 284001)
No it doesn't sound like the reported bombs at Stoke.

4 x SC 250 HE bombs (250 kg each) was a common load for a Ju 88's wing racks.

Were they strays? Quite likely!

Thanks Nick, yes, no one in the town has ever considered that they were anything but strays tbh. There was some thought (or at least I considered) that they may have jettisoned their loads in response to night fighter pursuit but my trawl of combat reports in the National Archive shows no contacts for any of the likely fighter squadrons on that night!!

I realise that the best I can hope for is some "probable" or "most likely" type explanation, rather than undesputed fact. I have quite a strong human Leek based narrative around the event from Newspaper and oral history. The only casualty was one 28 year old man who was killed as he ran to fetch his 2 yr old daughter from upstairs. One of the HE bombs physically hit him as it came through the house and embedded itself in the cellar! It would be awesome to have some technical military detail to add in!

Would you say then that I should really be looking for a unit that was using the JU88 at that time (which would discount III./KG27 as they appear to have used the HE111 exclusively!?)?? Is it likely that the JU88s could also carry the incendiary packs??

John

Chris Goss 5th March 2020 17:03

Re: Help with research? Can anyone assist?
 
John: Apart from the very thin chance of finding a logbook from the crew responsible, all surviving German records state what both Nick and myself have already said. All the known Ju 88 units attacking Birmingham that night (KGr 806, II./KG 76, KG 77) made no mention of dropping bombs anywhere else than Birmingham


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:50.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net