Luftwaffe Hornet Moth
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay at:


https://www.ebay.de/itm/FOTO-FLUGZEU...cAAOSwc6deYoRm


https://www.ebay.de/itm/2xFOTO-FLUGZ...MAAOSwnRxeYoQX


and:


https://www.ebay.de/itm/FOTO-FLUGZEU...UAAOSwLrNeYoST


are a series of photos of a de Havilland Hornet Moth in Luftwaffe markings. Has anyone and info on the previous identity of this machine,was it impressed at all? and/or any information on which Luftwaffe unit operated the aircraft subsequent to Koluft Gruppe Kleist?


Regards,


Clint

Re: Luftwaffe Hornet Moth
 

Very interesting find Clint

First time I come across a DH 87 in Luftwaffe markings.
Aircraft seems to have been captured in France (if seller's interpretation is correct), so in most likelyhood a former French civil (or impressed) one.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Luftwaffe Hornet Moth
 

Hello,

Possibly:

DH. 87B Hornet Moth F-AQEB.

F-AQEB - DH. 87B Hornet Moth (c/n. 8140) ex-G-AFBG 24.11.37 (5468), Maurice Harle, Chateau de Vertuil d'Agenais, L&G. Seized by Germans in .43 at Chateau de Vertuil; intercepted by FFI (French resistance) and destroyed.

https://www.ab-ix.co.uk/pdfs/f-aaaa.pdf (see: p 123 of 141)

Col.

Re: Luftwaffe Hornet Moth
 

Hello Nick,


Given the photos appear to come from a member of Koluft Gruppe Kleist, a component of Panzergruppe Kleist, I would assume June 1940 rather than 1943.


Regards,


Clint

Re: Luftwaffe Hornet Moth
 

I have to agree with Clint

Looking at all the other photos taken by the unknown photographer, I cannot see anything really pointing to something later than appx 1940.

Unfortunately France was major recipient of DH.87 and if (a big if) the seller is correct in his statement the photos were taken at Vulains-sûr-Seine (which probably is Vulaines-sûr-Seine), we will not get any wiser since most of the DH 87s were bought by people in/around Paris.

Since I can only assume no one on TOCH has any real knowledge about exactly what happened to all the French civil aircraft between Sep 1939 - June 1940, we basically have no clue how the French impressment went its way. Since so many aircraft obviously never was incorporated into the military organization, the handling (to me) seems much more haphazard than the way it was done in Britain. Having said that, I would then assume local rules applied instead of country rules, meaning that it would not surprise me if local commanders (airfield or unit) simply requisitioned the available civil aircraft which was by now grounded all over France.

So, again, this aircraft can thus be any of those DH.87s which had been stored around Paris (six-seven can be easily found).

I would be very happy to listen to any of our French contributors and learn much more about all these "hidden mysteries". Trivia of course, since it ment basically nothing to the overall effort, but very interesting to me and many others.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Luftwaffe Hornet Moth
 

Gentlemen - I agree with your interpretation of the possible date. Conclusively however, the date of the photo is 29.08.40 - (see the back of 1st one).
Col.Bruggy - Interesting information on DH87B F-AQEB. Thanks for sharing.
Regards - Tom

Re: Luftwaffe Hornet Moth
 

I am starting to get the impression that there are some gaps in French aviation history about this period. Surely, those involved must have written some accounts regarding whether French civil aircraft were impressed or not and for what roles. I look forward to hearing from anyone with such information. I think a liberated France on its way to recovery would have wanted to pass along such details for posterity.


Ed

Re: Luftwaffe Hornet Moth
 

Hello to all
I am currently ending an article for Avions about requisitioned light british aircraft in the french Armée de de l'air in 1940 (moth family, Percival, etc).
I can confirm that this plane is an ex french captured at Bordeaux airfield.
All detail will be in the article (sorry but years of reasearch in in archive...) and the futur lucky winner of the pic can contact me ;-)

As speaked here, there was also a Leopard moth in the same condition.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...hlight=leopard

Best :-)

Matt

Re: Luftwaffe Hornet Moth
 

That was interesting Matt

If Bordeaux is correct then the seller ain't got a clue where these pics were taken.
Not surprising really,,,

Cheers
Stig

Re: Luftwaffe Hornet Moth
 

Hi Matt & Stig
Appreciate your info on the location being Bordeaux and all the best with your AVIONS article. I look forward to seeing this soon.
Stig - I know that sellers are not the most knowledgeable but do not down-grade their contribution. They are most likely the ones to split albums and sometimes the information concerning locations and context about the photos can be passed on However, the data on the backs of the DH87 photos is more than likely to be correct in giving the name of the person - the date - so why not the correct location? Bordeaux seems to be where it was seized but can be located anywhere when re-used and flown by their new masters.
Like documents I think that original photos should be considered as PRIME SOURCES in their own right at least in this case.

Re: Luftwaffe Hornet Moth
 

After many years of looking for photos on eBay and German eBay, researchers have a great many images to look at that are indeed primary sources. The goal of most sellers is just making money. Why sell a full photo album for $200 when you can take 10 photos out of it and make more? It is irritating from the research side but of little concern to those who simply see the dollar/Euro value.

And some photos have valuable information written on the back. In the past, such access to original photos was limited.


Best,
Ed