22/04/43:JG3 claims
 

Hello

There seems to be somme "fog" according to different sources about these guys.

Oblt Kirschner=one boston
Maj.Brandle=one P-39 (133.)
Von Boremski=two Il-2+one LaGG ???

Other sources says:nothing on 22/04/43 for Brandle but (133.) on 23/04/43.(LaGG.)
The Boston for Josef Schütte (29.) and not for Kirschner!
"Quid" of Von Boremski? sometime it's one, other times=nothing!! or ASM.

Help!
Michel

Re: 22/04/43:JG3 claims
 

Hi Michel

As per previous debates April 1943 is the worst mikrofilm to read, I had them cleaned-up, but there is a glue residue obscuring half the details. I can tell you there are fifteen claims in the East this day.

Fact one for Kirscher(anerk 357) but I cannot read the details.

Fact two for Schüster, one A.S.M, but can't read other details. A Lagg at 1402 hrs hrs(anerk 448)

Two Lagg's for Ettel at 1402 hrs(anerk 447) and 1409 hrs(anerk 449). Two others for Ettel, but can't read the details other than anerk 450 and 451.


I'll try again to read others.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: 22/04/43:JG3 claims
 

Hi Michel

I've been over it again and:-

4./JG3 all LaGG-3's-

Hermann Schüster 1403 hrs 5000 metres grid ref-7542 anerk 448
Hermann Schüster 1425 hrs 400 metres A.S.M
Wolf-Udo Ettel 1401 hrs 4500 metres grid 75451 anerk 447
Wolf-Udo Ettel 1408 hrs 4300 metres anerk 449
Wolf-Udo Ettel 1411 hrs 4000 metres anerk 450
Wolf-Udo Ettel 1420 hrs 2800 metres anerk 451

7./JG3=

Eberhard von Boremski 1705 hrs Il-2 300 metres A.S.M
Eberhard von Boremski 1710 hrs Il-2 tief A.S.M
Eberhard von Boremski 1745 hrs La-5 2300 metres A.S.M

5./JG3=

Joachim Kirschner 1828 hrs Boston 700 metres grid 10784 anerk 357

No Bründle.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: 22/04/43:JG3 claims
 

Hi Johannes
Thank you:the fog dissipates a little!
I have a little difference in claims:16

10(JG3)+Leber/JG51(1)
Sarge/JG52(1)
Titze/JG51(2)
Dukovac/Kroat/JG52(DB-3:15 km O.N.O Gelendzhik)
Galic/Kroat/JG52(MDR-6:Kabardinka)

Despite identification errors,Note that the four claims of Ettel are justified:it'srare enought to mention it!!

Despite a certain lack of interest (relaibilityof its claims for ex.),as regards these,it's bad!!!!it looks like some "specialist" as Rudorffer,Hahn,Nowotny,Lang.....
Just for the month of april 43,a good twenty are not justified....124 "Abschusse",certain of the contrary!

Best Regards
Michel

Re: 22/04/43:JG3 claims
 

Hi Michel

Regarding Ettel

I did try to see if he was "over-claiming", my investigation was based solely on who claimed with him not on Russian losses.
There was one name that you could say he had an association with and that was Leopold Münster, but at the same time those for 22.04.1943 looked okay agreeing with your diagnosis.

Regarding Ettel's actual total. There was a book published which was basically a collection of his letters home. In it he states that he had 118 victories in Russia, this is the exact number found on the mikrofilms, rather than the 120 quoted by Obermaier's Ritterkreuz book. Ettel does not refer to Münster in any way, though it is very likely he was witness to many of Ettel's claims. Obermaier also refers to four claims in the west, the mikrofilms have only three, therefore a total of 121 confirmed claims.

Kind Regards

Johannes