Who Shot Down Obfw Karl Schmid of 5./JG51 on 5 August 1940
 

I am trying to resolve different accounts that relate to the shooting down and death of Obfw Karl Schmid of 5./JG51 on 5 August 1940. JG51 had an engagement with Spitfires of 64 and 65 Squadron at approximately 09.00-09.20 in mid-channel off Dover. Five JG51 pilots made claims, while one unnamed pilot of 8./JG51 returned with a damaged Bf 109. Some sources also claim that Obfw Schmid was shot down during this engagement with Brian Cull's Battle for the Channel quoting from the biography of Sgt Mann of 64 Squadron, who claimed 'I gave him a five-second burst and saw the tracer raking him. He began to smoke and then went into an inverted dive. His cockpit canopy flew off and shortly afterwards the pilot fell out. His parachute opened and he fell away below.' But this is a significant elaboration on Mann's combat report, which simply states 'I got in a long burst. E/a dived with smoke trail behind. At 5,000 ft it turned onto its back and was observed by Sqdn. Leader MacDonell to crash into the sea.' It is likely that the aircraft that MacDonell saw hitting the sea was the Spitfire of Sgt Isaac, the only aircraft that was definitely shot down during this engagement.
Marek Murawski's history of JG51 states that Obfw Schmid was killed during an engagement in the afternoon. This was probably with Hurricanes of 151 Squadron. Any thoughts?

Re: Who Shot Down Obfw Karl Schmid of 5./JG51 on 5 August 1940
 

Peter: You have my book and without concrete times; this is what I said:
His first victory came as a Fw on 19 May 1940 and by the end of the Battle of France his score stood at six. His first of the Battle of Britain came on 25 July 1940 and four days later, it stood at nine and he had been promoted to Ofw. On 5 August 1940 he was reported missing over the Channel. His was the only Bf 109 lost that day with another three damaged; the RAF reported shooting down five Bf 109s, another five unconfirmed and one damaged.

Re: Who Shot Down Obfw Karl Schmid of 5./JG51 on 5 August 1940
 

Thanks Chris, yes, I checked your book, but hoping someone will be able to come up with a time, even morning or afternoon will do, so that I can locate Schmid with a particular combat.

Re: Who Shot Down Obfw Karl Schmid of 5./JG51 on 5 August 1940
 

Hi Guys

For whatever reason my friend John Foreman thought his victor was probably Flight Sergeant W.H Franklin flying a spitfire with 65th squadron.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Who Shot Down Obfw Karl Schmid of 5./JG51 on 5 August 1940
 

Times are the clincher here. 64 & 65 made claims in the morning and there was the I./JG 54 claim then. 65 and 151 Sqn claimed PM and I./JG 51 made the one claim for a Curtiss. Hard to say