Locations of claims III/JG2
 

Good evening

I noticed several strange things:

sources Mathews/Foreman and T.Woods

28/06/43
9./JG2 Lt Bruno Eder 1B-17 4865/15West 17h31 .....corresponds to SCOTLAND!!

8./JG2 Fw.Walter Ebert 1B-17 6836/15West 17h55....idem to SCOTLAND!!

04/07/43
9./JG2 Ltn Josef Wurmheller 1B-17 4725/14West 13h09....corresponds to Sud Belle isle en Mer

9./JG2 Ltn Josef Wurmheller 1B-17 72131/14West 13h11 (two mn after)...corresponds to SPAIN!!!

Were is the error?
How OKL was able to homologate them??

Michel

Re: Locations of claims III/JG2
 

Hi Michel

When I compiled the claims for the Luftwaffe pilots for John Foreman I didn't include grid references, I figured that for the average Max Mastermann/Joe Bloggs they wouldn't mean anything. John is far more literate than myself, and compiled/reworked/corrected the biographies, therefore John added the grid references in himself, it would seem from T.Woods lists?). I checked the mikrofilms and those for Wurmheller are exactly as John added them, however those for the 28th June 1943 are indeed incorrect. they should read :-

Eder 1731 hrs 4865/14 West 7000 metres
Ebert 1755 hrs 6836/14 West 2000 metres

The altitude for Wurmheller's are 1309 hrs =6000 metres, 1311 hrs =7500 metres.

I don't know much about the quid references used in the West, but over Russia there would be several with exactly the same reference many kilometres apart. Instead of a grid reference in the East I worked out the crash-site using actual WW2 charts......but you have to know approximately where the Geschwader was operating at the relevant date.

Apologies for the mistakes.

Please let me know your re-worked crash-sites for those for 28th June, and re-check those for Wurmheller.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Locations of claims III/JG2
 

Hello Johannes

28/06/43
Bruno Eder 1 B-17 (4865/14West)..location" Sauzon" Nord."Belle ile en Mer":47°22'30"N et 3°15'0"W

Walter Ebert 1 B-17 (6836/14West)..location Ocean Sud Est "Penmarch" Brittany:47°37'30"N et 5°35'0"W

Wilhelm Kopp 1 B-17(4865/14West) 17h31 (according T.Woods,no Prien)...same location than Bruno Eder

Otto Muller 1 B-17(6832/14West 17.58 (according T.Woods,no Prien)..same location than Walter Ebert:47°42'30"N et 5°45'0"W

Friedrich May 1 B-17 sea West Lorient 17h58 (according you) 6832/14 West (T.Woods):same location than Walter Ebert:47°42'30"N et 5°45'0"W

04/07/42
Josef Wurmheller 1 B-17(4725/14West 13h09 "ocean sud Belle Ile en Mer"/NNEst ile d'Yeu":46°52'30"N et 3°15'0"W

Josef Wurmheller 1 B-17(488./14West) 13h11 "Ocean SE Belle ile en mer":47°2'30"N et 3°15'0"W...same location than Herbert Huppertz(4881/14West),Paul Bleyer,Fleischmann.

Michel

Re: Locations of claims III/JG2
 

Hi Johannes

Other corrections to be made
28/03/43
Georg Peter Eder B-17(1887/05 0st) 13h05=ABERDEEN...in reality 0188/05 0st= Channel Nord.St Valery en Caux/Nord Ouest Dieppe....to compare with the claim of Bolz(B-17 13h09 6km Ouest St Valery)

3/09/43
Paul Bleyer B-17 Epinay sur Seine 10h55...in reality Epinay (Mesnil en Ouche)...to compare with the claim of Von Gernier B-17(0912/04 0st) 10h.56 "Nord Vimoutiers"

Michel

Re: Locations of claims III/JG2
 

Thanks Guys

For some strange reason JG2 was the only Geschwader to submit shared claims, i.e two pilots same details of claim, but also same anerk number !
Don't know why that should be the case.

Should think a lot of JG2's battles were over the sea, crash-sites especially in the West were investigated, this could explain their "over-claiming"......no crash-site to investigate.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Locations of claims III/JG2
 

Continuation of corrections

10/07/43
Martin Brendel B-17 (1068/14W) 08.30=VALENCIA SPAIN.

In reality,it' 1068/15W 08.30="Ouistreham" 49° 17' 30" N
0° 15' 0" W

michel