LG1 & ZG 76 Me 110 losses on 9 Sep 1940 - details sought
 

On 9 Sep 1940 Me 110C 3298 L1+DL of 15/LG1 with the crew Uffz A.Pfaffelhuber (+) and Uffz O. Kramp (+) and Me 110C 3207 2N+EP(?) of 9/ZG76 with the crew :Fw. Eduard Ostermüncher (+) and Gefr. Werner Zimmermann (+) were downed in Epsom area. Did any of the airmen managed to bail out?
TIA
Franek

Re: LG1 & ZG 76 Me 110 losses on 9 Sep 1940 - details sought
 

Don't believe LG 1 crew baled out but Ostermüncher did and parachute failed to open. Former crashed at Worcester Park, Surrey, latter (which was said to be 2N+EP but two with this code were recorded lost this day) came down at Woodmanstern after being rammed

Re: LG1 & ZG 76 Me 110 losses on 9 Sep 1940 - details sought
 

From ULTRA:

CX/JQ/298
1. On 9/9 source saw fragment of report sent to V.(Z)/LG 1 HQ Rocquancourt, stating that 1 sortie of 13 Me 110 had been made that day. No enemy a/c shot down, but 1 German a/c lost, belonging to 15. Staffel. (A)

Re: LG1 & ZG 76 Me 110 losses on 9 Sep 1940 - details sought
 

Thanks chaps.
Nick, does Utra suggest the code was L1+AL?
Chris, there is an account suggesting German airmen were, well, helped down on their parachutes. Ostermüncher seem the only candidate.
Franek

Re: LG1 & ZG 76 Me 110 losses on 9 Sep 1940 - details sought
 

This what I have. The LG1 aircraft and the 9/ZG76 Bf 110 both came down, killing the crews, but a Bf 110 of 6/ZG76 was also lost on this day and the pilot, Fw Koops, was rescued from the sea and became a PoW – I presume that he baled out. See the last entry below.

Peter

Mason - 1969 - Battle Over Britain - p. 302
15./LG 1 - Messerschmitt Bf 110C-3 (L1+DL) - Combat Mission - Shot down by two Hurricanes and crashed on the Maori Sports Club, Old Malden Lane, Worcester Park, Surrey at 17.45 hrs. 100% damage. Uffz. Pfafflhuber and Uffz. Kramp killed.

Ramsey/Cornwell - 1980 - BoB Then and Now - p. 635
15/LG1 - Messerschmitt Bf 110C-4 (3298) - Shot down by fighters during sortie over southern England. Crashed on Maori Sports Club, Old Malden Lane, Worcester Park, Surrey 6.00 p.m. Uffz. Pfafflhuber and Uffz. Kramp both killed. Aircraft L1+DL a write-off.
Major recovery from under a cricket pitch by the London Air Museum. Remains of both Daimler-Benz DB 601 engines excavated together with both undercarriage legs, oxygen bottles, remains of a rubber dinghy, first-aid kit, a parachute and masses of compressed airframe including one tail fin still bearing traces of painted Swastika.

Vasco/Cornwell - 1995 - Zerstörer - p. 230
15.(Z)/LG 1 - Bf 110 C-4 L1+DL 3298 - 100% damage - Uffz. Alois Pfafflhuber, Pilot, killed; Uffz. Otto Kramp, Bf, killed - Exploded following attack by P/O Tamblyn of 242 Sqdn. and 310 Sqdn. Hurricanes. Maori Sports Club, Old Malden Lane, Worcester Park.

Parker - 2013 - Luftwaffe Crash Archive - Vol. 3 p. 382
Bf110C-4 Wn.3298 L1+DL 15(Z)/LG1 (map no. 14)
Maori Sports Club, Old Malden Lane, Worcester Park, Surrey. 18.00 hrs.
Attacked by two Hurricanes and aircraft exploded after hitting the ground with wreckage being scattered over a large area.
Markings: on two pieces of fuselage part of the yellow letter D outlined in red was found. Evidence of whitewash being used was found on pieces of wing.
ID: -,AW:-, FP: L 14418 Frankfurt.
Ff: Uffz Alois Pfaffelhuber 52603/23 + . CC 1/329.
Bf: Uffz Otto Kramp +. CC 1/328.
The Feldpostnummer was found on two letters, the latest dated 27th August 1940 and had been associated with 15/LG1 but also could be that of a Ergänzungs Staffel.
The pilot's diary was found which started when he transferred an Messerschmitt Bf110 L1 +EL of V/LG1 from Mannheim-Sandhofen-Wiesbaden on 16th May 1940. Later entries were:[list moved to biography entry for Uffz Pfaffelhuber]

Mason - 1969 - Battle Over Britain - p. 302
III./ZG 76 - Messerschmitt Bf 110C (3207:2N+EP) - Combat Mission - Shot down by 310 Sqn. Hurricane of Bergman near Croydon at 17.50 hrs. 100% damage. Fw. Ostermuncher and Gefr. Zimmermann killed.

Ramsey/Cornwell - 1980 - BoB Then and Now - p. 635
9/ZG76 - Messerschmitt Bf 110C (3207) - Shot down in combat with RAF fighters and crashed in Woodcote Park Avenue, Woodmanstern. Fw. Ostermuencher and Gefr. Zimmermann both killed. Aircraft 2N+EP a write-off.
Few remaining fragments recovered by the Air Historical Group.

Vasco/Cornwell - 1995 - Zerstörer - p. 231
9./ZG 76 - Bf 110 C 2N+EP 3207 - 100% damage - Fw. Eduard Ostermunchner, Pilot, killed; Gefr. Werner Zimmermann, Bf, killed - Rammed by F/O Boulton of 310 Sqdn. Woodcote Park Avenue, Woodmanstern. [It is unlikely that two aircraft from the same Staffel would carry the same fuselage code on the same day. This is likely to be an entry error in Luftwaffe records.]

Parker - 2013 - Luftwaffe Crash Archive - Vol. 3 p. 384
Bf110C-4 Wn.3207 2N+EP 9/ZG76 (map no. 17)
Woodcote Park Avenue, Woodmanstern, Surrey. 18.15 hrs.
The pilot was wounded by a shot near his heart and either baled out or fell out, his parachute failing to open.
ID: 53585, AW: white card with orange back, issued by FP no. L 32311, LGP Frankfurt, 21/7/40, FP: -.
Ff: Ltn Eduard Osterrnünchner 53585/19 +. CC 1/327.
Bf: Gefr Werner Zimmermann 53582/32 +. CC 5/64.
The pilots ID disc had previously been encountered with a number of Messerschmitt Bf110 units including ZG1, 2, 76 and EproGr.210. The Ausweis had not been previously encountered.
Although Messerschmitt Bf110s werke nummers 3108 and 3207, both of 9/ZG76, are recorded as carrying the same fuselage code and both were bought down on the same day, it would be assumed that either one of the aircraft was a spare and there was no time to change the markings, or there was an error in the Quartermaster Generals Returns for the Luftwaffe as it is unlikely that two aircraft from the same unit would carry the same code at the same time.
Alternatively there is some evidence that Wn.3108 could have been 2N +BP, which would then solve the problem which may have been just a simple transcription error.

Mason - 1969 - Battle Over Britain - p. 302
6./ZG 76 - Messerschmitt Bf 110C (3108:2N+EP) - Combat Mission - Shot down by 303 Sqn. Hurricane of Kent over Channel 5 miles off Newhaven, 18.00 hrs. 100% damage. Uffz. Karella killed; Fw. Hermann Koops rescued and made P.O.W.

Ramsey/Cornwell - 1980 - BoB Then and Now - p. 635
9/ZG76 - Messerschmitt Bf 110C (3108) - Ditched in sea five miles off Newhaven due to damage sustained in fighter attack over southern England 6.00 p.m. Fw. Koops captured unhurt. Uffz. Weiher killed. Aircraft 2N+EP lost.

Vasco/Cornwell - 1995 - Zerstörer - p. 231
9./ZG 76 - Bf 110 C 2N+EP 3108 - 100% damage - Fw. Hermann Koops, Pilot, POW; Uffz. Christian Weiher, Bf (7./ZG 76), killed - Severely damaged by RAF fighters. Ditched in sea on return flight. Channel, 5 miles off Newhaven. [It is unlikely that two aircraft from the same Staffel would carry the same fuselage code on the same day. This is likely to be an entry error in Luftwaffe records.]

Parker - 2013 - Luftwaffe Crash Archive - Vol. 3 p. 384
Bf110C-2 Wn.3108 2N+EP 9/ZG76 (map no. 3)
At sea - five miles off Newhaven, Sussex. 18.00 hrs.
Started at 17.30 hrs escorting Heinkel He111s. The height during the journey varied between 13,000 and 21,000 ft. When near London, the formation was attacked by Spitfires, the wireless operator being wounded. The pilot tried to get back to France, but was attacked a second time by Hurricanes off Newhaven and eventually came down in the sea.
Markings: E in yellow.
ID: Jgd.Sch.Schleissheim, AW: white, issued by L 32311, 29/8/40, FP: L 01544.
Ff: Fw Hermann Koops.
Bf: Uffz Christian Weiher +. CC 1/86.
The pilot gave his unit as 3/ZG76 but the Feldpostnummer was that of II/ZG 1.
The wireless operator's name was unknown to the pilot, but his body was washed ashore at Lydd, Kent on 2nd October 1940.
The pilot's diary gave the following:
13/8/40 Zerstörerschule, Scheissheim.
23/8/40 In Laval.
26/8/40 Caen - Plymouth.
29/8/40 SW London.
30/8/40 London.
31/8/40 Cambridge.
1/9/40 London.
4/9/40 Escorted bombers to Vickers Works.
8/9/40 Escorted 40 Do17s to London.

Re: LG1 & ZG 76 Me 110 losses on 9 Sep 1940 - details sought
 

I quoted the whole item, there’s no more.

Re: LG1 & ZG 76 Me 110 losses on 9 Sep 1940 - details sought
 

Nick, I am just not sure what the letter in brackets mean. I guess you are much more knowledgeable on Ultra than me.
Peter, many thanks. Koops ditched the aircraft, but anyway ground witness could not see action over the Channel from Epsom Downs!
Franek

Re: LG1 & ZG 76 Me 110 losses on 9 Sep 1940 - details sought
 

(A) = Bletchley Park was certain of its interpretation of the German signal
(B) = fairly sure
(C) = possible

This was how it worked in 1940 but they changed the system later.

Re: LG1 & ZG 76 Me 110 losses on 9 Sep 1940 - details sought
 

Thanks Nick, exactly what I was after.
Franek