Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum - German tri-engine long-range recce shot up on June 29, 1941

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- - German tri-engine long-range recce shot up on June 29, 1941 (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=6769)

Dénes Bernád

22nd November 2006 17:23

German tri-engine long-range recce shot up on June 29, 1941

A Rumanian document notes the following: "On June 29 [1941], a German tri-engine DARMARES (sic!) aircraft returned from a long-range reconnaissance mission shot up and landed on own airfield. The board commander, a lieutenant, was dead and the aircraft had many holes in it".

Could it be an aircraft assigned to the secretive so-called 'Kommando Rowehl' – officially known as Aufklärungsgruppe des Oberbefehlshabers der Luftwaffe, or Aufkl. Gr. (F)/Ob. d. L. – as the 2nd squadron was based on an airfield near Bucharest? If so, what type could it have been?

Also, I would be very interested in other similar incidents that happened prior to 22 June 1941, involving Luftwaffe spy planes based in Rumania, Bulgaria, Hungary or vicinity that flew reconnaissance missions over the USSR.

ChrisMAg2

23rd November 2006 13:05

Re: German tri-engine long-range recce shot up on June 29, 1941

Denes,
I found this:

Quote:

...The 2.(F)/Staffel was transferred to Orly near Paris and the 3. / to Bucharest-Baneasa?. The 1.(F)/Staffel operated from Seerappen with the He 111 and covered the area of White Russia. The 2.(F)/Staffel later followed from Insterburg and covered the Baltic States and the direction of Lake Ilmen. Operating from Bucharest, the 3.(F)/Staffel covered the Black Sea and coast and as farther north as possible.
The V.f.H. flew from Cracow and Budapest towards the region of Kiev and Minsk. These missions were carried out using He 111s with special high-altitude engines, as well as Do 215s, Ju 88Bs and the Ju 86P, using pressure cabins and specially adapted engines. ...

From here:
http://www.wiki.luftwaffedata.co.uk/...hp?articleId=1

Maybe one of the He 111? I remember seeing photos of He 111 for high atitude use, but where and what type?

Nick Beale

23rd November 2006 13:34

Re: German tri-engine long-range recce shot up on June 29, 1941

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dénes Bernád (Post 32955)

I would be very interested in other similar incidents that happened prior to 22 June 1941, involving Luftwaffe spy planes based in Rumania, Bulgaria, Hungary or vicinity that flew reconnaissance missions over the USSR.

Guenther W. Gellermann's "Moskau ruft Heeeresgruppe Mitte..." (Bernard & Graefe Verlag) has an account of reconnaissance over the USSR before Barbarossa.

Dénes Bernád

23rd November 2006 22:46

Re: German tri-engine long-range recce shot up on June 29, 1941

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisMAg2 (Post 32995)

Denes,
I found this: (...)

Well, this contradicts what I found on the unit:

Quote:

For pre-invasion reconnaissance missions over the Soviet Union, 4./Aufkl. St. (F)/ Ob. d. L. was temporarily based in Bucharest, Romania, and Krakow, Poland. However, on 21 June 1941, it was relocated to Berlin-Rangsdorf for operations against western targets.

In support of Unternehmen Barbarossa, the:

1./Aufkl. St. (F)/Ob. d. L. operated from Krakow, Poland (operational targets included the Baltic States and the Leningrad area);
2./Aufkl. St. (F)/Ob. d. L. operated from Bucharest, Romania (operational targets included Moscow and industrial/mining areas of the USSR); and,
3./Aufkl. St. (F)/Ob. d. L. operated from Hamina, Finland (operational targets included Murmansk and nothern regions of the USSR).

[Source: Arvo L. V. , Luftwaffe's "Kommando Rowehl"]

Now, which internet source is right? Unfortunately, I cannot access any of my sources, as they are packed in boxes :(

Dénes Bernád

25th November 2006 21:18

Re: German tri-engine long-range recce shot up on June 29, 1941

The fact that it was a tri-engine airplane intrigues me. Apart of the Ju 52/3m - clearly unsuitable for long-range reconnaissance missions over enemy territory - no other aircraft type, in service in 1941, comes to my mind.
Any suggestions?

Nick Beale

25th November 2006 22:01

Re: German tri-engine long-range recce shot up on June 29, 1941

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dénes Bernád (Post 33108)

Bv 138? Could have been operating over the Black Sea I suppose but more likey to have landed on water than an airfield.

ChrisMAg2

28th November 2006 06:50

Re: German tri-engine long-range recce shot up on June 29, 1941

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dénes Bernád (Post 33108)

What about testbed a/c with two original engines and a third in the fuselage for the high altitude boost (i.e. a He 111)? I remember that there was something like that, but don't remember details.

Csaba B. Stenge

28th November 2006 10:31

Re: German tri-engine long-range recce shot up on June 29, 1941

Another possibility, that it was a 2-mot plane and the Romanian source is wrong in this case (some Romanian documents mentioned mistakenly 3 mot Soviet planes as well from 1941, and these were in fact 2 mot planes)

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