Ju 88 WNR 853 +(H)A
 

Hello!

Do any of our resident Junkers & Werke Nummer experts have anything about Ju 88 WNr 853? Code was +(H)A, first two digits unknown, third is probable and the "A" is certain. I do not know if it is Stammkennzeichen or Verbandskennung. IIRC the two last digits were both in black.

I am looking for possible damage report for early July 1941. I will elaborate more on this forum if the plane (and as a result perhaps the incident) is successfully identified. My Private Message box is full and will remain so until further notice.

Thanking in advance,

Kari

Re: Ju 88 WNR 853 +(H)A
 

The best guess could hv been a 8253 of 3.KG76, 853 seems to be a D-2 could hv been used by Auf.gr. OBDL ..seems that these planes could hv wornt no unit codes so all blach last two letters...

no reported losses/damaged Ju88 ending with 853 on end of june beg july 41.

remi

Re: Ju 88 WNR 853 +(H)A
 

Hi Kari,

W.nr. 853 is indeed a possibility. Could have been under 10% damage and thus not listed.

853 Ju 88 A-5 [DE+HA] Luftwaffe
Known Einflug at Bernburg 18.04.41, Kürsstauer. 19.04.41 - Stückpr._bnahme 20.04.41 [rep Ju 88 853 in logbook Prüfm. Erich Pommer]
- Ju 88 D-2 Erg.FAGr (Lw.Befh.Mitte)
Non-OPS (H) engine failures and force landed (25%) at Meschenbach near Koburg 25.06.1943

cheers
ed

Re: Ju 88 WNR 853 +(H)A
 

Ed, you are really a step ahead than me

Re: Ju 88 WNR 853 +(H)A
 

Salut!

Thank you Gentlemen.

This seems to be a hard nut to crack without exact date.

The origin of my question is a photo series which shows the Ju 88 with bullet holes. Photos are official Finnish military photos, but there are no hint of the time and location. For my eyes the place looks like Helsinki-Malmi and photo record numbers put them in early July 1941. Caption says that the plane arrived from Königsberg and was damaged by enemy. There is no photo of the whole plane. Pilot was "a german Leutenant".

If I remember correctly the holes looked like caused by small calibre bullets and there was hits on fin, wing and propellers. My guess is that the propeller(s?) had to be changed. Would that necessitate a test flight? There are recorded "local flights" by Ju 88 in July 8th (23 minutes) and two "local flights" in July 11th (no flight time). Test flight would be one good reason for Ju 88 local flights around Helsinki. FinnAF did not have any Ju 88 at that time.

Records of Soviet aviation units might give possible matches but otherwise it seems we are out of luck with this one.


Thanks again,
Kari

Re: Ju 88 WNR 853 +(H)A
 

Hi;

Description sounds like only 2% to 5% damage. A belly landing sometimes 20% but wiping off gear and props was perhaps 30% etc. Damage repair done in foreign country - ? - likely lost to history!

But how obout this one? - No W.Nr. given

.... Ju 88 A-5 3./KGr 806 (Luftflotte 1 East) OPS (F) crash landing (30%) at Helsinki 10.07.1941 (107v19.07.41)

cheers
ed

Re: Ju 88 WNR 853 +(H)A
 

Hello!

In book "Luftwaffen pohjoinen sivusta" (ISBN 951-95688-5-9) Hannu Valtonen lists this as WNr 4408, other data same as yours. AFAIK Valtonen's loss list is based on data provided by Mr. Matti Salonen, who is also a member of this forum (see the members list).

Kari

Re: Ju 88 WNR 853 +(H)A
 

Hello!

Before going to sleep I took the photo book "German aircraft in Finland" by Keskinen et al. (ISBN 952-5026-07-8 ) and paged around. It's been very long since I read the book last time.

Holy cow, at page 65 there are two photos of a Ju 88. Captioned as S4+FH and that the photos show two different planes despite the very same code. Problem number one with that is that at least I haven't found even single flight to Finland by KGr 506 (S4) Ju 88s in their KTB. Plus I think it plausible that the photos do show one and single airframe.

But now I noticed that the lower photo shows Stammkennzeichen under the port wing and the (last two) digits seem to be HA! Could it be that the DE+HA was repaired and unit markings painted on while at Malmi?

This is something that really has to be digged deep.


Kari

Re: Ju 88 WNR 853 +(H)A
 

Hi,

Great thanks, one more unknown gone! Searching manually for all reported damaged in July 1941. There are a lot but those two possbilitys stand out:

2159 Ju 88 A-1 / A-5 2./KG 77 (Luftflotte 1 East)
OPS (F) damaged by machine-gun fire (10% Er) at Rossiten 02.07.1941

8253 Ju 88 A-5 3./KG 76 (Luftflotte 1 East)
OPS (F) undercarriage damage (50% Er) at Oilit Airfield 08.07.1941

cheers
ed

Re: Ju 88 WNR 853 +(H)A
 

.... disregard last post .... have to chk my copy of
that book!

cheers
ed