Re: Why the USAAF gave up on the A-36 in favour of the P-47.
Juha, I know there was no invulnerable tank in WWII.
What I'm talking about is frontal invulnerability to the enemy's common anti-tank weapon, and it did exist occasionally.
I'm not talking invulnerability to massive overkill such as the 3-inch 60lb SAP Typhoon RP, or 15-inch shells of HMS Warspite, or hand-held rocket-grenades fired into the sides or rear.
Matilda II in 1940 in the Arras counter-attack was invulnerable to the common 37-mm Pak36 'Doorknocker', and was eventually stopped only by intervention of the uncommon DP 88-mm. But the shock to Hitler led, IMHO, to the stand-still order outside Dunkirk and the turning point of WWII.
I've tried to show how in 1944/45 a reasonable upgrade to the Churchill VII would have achieved frontal invulnerability to the common DP 88-mm.
German and Russian all-arms cooperation was better than British/US because they had studied the lessons of Amiens 1918 and placed tactical aviation and armour under control of the ground commander - 'under command' rather than 'in support' which the RAF and Royal Armoured corps insisted on. I know the LW was nominally independent, and the USAAF was nominally under army control, but Kesselring made it clear to all subordinates that the Heer's wishes were paramount, while the USAAF hankered after the RAF's complete independence and acted accordingly, with the exceptions of Broadhurst and Quesada.
It seems from what you write that the Finns were very careful not to present a target to the VVS or Soviet artillery, and succeeded.
In Op Veritable the Germans tried to do the same, but often failed. The RAF dog saw the German rabbit, attacked it and missed nine times out of ten. Here is a typical story, known only because the German gunner wrote about it. No doubt 2TAF called it a success.
A Jagdpanzer IV (75-mm L48) of Panzerjäger Abteilung 33, 15 Panzer Grenadier Division, was in the village of Kervenheim on February 28, 1945. The gunner, Hans Kühn described how he destroyed the first Churchill to appear, which separated the tanks from the infantry, then the crew hid and were attacked from the air by 2TAF.
“The defence held against the enemy infantry who attacked continuously until the evening, the Paras giving no ground in spite of heavy losses from artillery fire. On the Üdem road the other tank destroyers hadn't 'let in a single goal' either. Meanwhile the crews gathered round 321 to have something to eat. It was more than a slice of dry bread, but not much more being only two months before the end of hostilities.
The hatch cover was open. The background noise of small arms and artillery fire never stopped. Nevertheless the crew suddenly picked up the well-known drone - Jabos! There were twelve of them flying in an elegant curve around Kervenheim. The crew of 321 knew the British procedure: whenever strong resistance was met and German tanks put in an appearance the higher commanders at once despatched the Jabos. And here were tracks in the field leading to the road and giving away their position! Lt. Merdian held the big hatch cover open with a gap of about 20 cm to see through. The gunner could also watch the flight pattern. The Jabos rounded Kervenheim church tower, gained a little height and peeled off, with the first diving straight for 321. Pray to God the hatch is solid! Each man sank down into his seat and soon aircraft bullets were rattling against the armour. Then there was a brief hissing followed by an almighty explosion. Instantly the inside of the SP Gun filled up with lime and brick dust. Everyone was coughing and gasping for air. It was a very dangerous moment. But the next bomb dropped further away. The hatch cover could not be opened. 321 was buried.
As night fell Lt. Merdian ordered the engine started. It actually fired up and the tank crawled out of the pile of rubble. The Paras greeted the crew with delight and described what had happened in the bombing attack. The first of the twelve Jabos had released two bombs which were overs and had hit the wall of the shoe factory producing an enormous cloud of dust. This had made the Tank Destroyer invisible to the following planes and was the biggest stroke of luck for the 321's crew. They were Lt. Merdian, the Commander; Sgt Kühn, Gunner; Sgt Voit, Driver; and Cpl Stürzbecher, Wireless Operator and Loader. “
Finally, do you recommend the films 'Tali-Ihantila 1944' and 'The Winter War - Talvisota' ?
Tony
Last edited by tcolvin; 4th August 2010 at 15:41.
Reason: Sense.
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