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Originally Posted by tcolvin
In other words, Nifty, you are saying that day bombers without escort or in conditions where they do not enjoy local air superiority, are vulnerable to fighters. This is true but irrelevant in 1944 after the USAAF's Thunderbolts and Mustangs had achieved air superiority over Europe by destroying the GAF.
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Air superiority is not the same as no opposition. German fighters attacked Allied fighter-bombers often enough to make it very dangerous for them to fly a much slower and less manueverable airplane. If the RAF was flying a ground attack plane like the Stuka in 1944, they could lose an entire squadron in just one mission.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcolvin
The British Ju-87 could then have done its accurate work unhindered by enemy fighters, and the British Il-2 would have been more effective than Typhoon and Spitfire because of its resistance to FLAK.
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I've read the same kind of hyperbole about the P-47, though it is true to some extent because the Thunderbolt did not have a liquid-cooling system like the Junkers 87 and the Ilyushin Il-2. Photos are available showing Thunderbolts that returned to base with multiple cylinder heads shot away, or missing large pieces of the airframe. The Stuka and the Sturmovik would crash with the same type of damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcolvin
In any case, 2TAF's equipment proved not only to be inaccurate but also deathtraps. So much so that in early March 1945, 2TAF drastically curtailed its fighter-bomber activities - as we have seen in the matter of the Rhine bridges at Wesel - because of high losses from FLAK. AFAIK the VVS with the right equipment never restricted its activities.
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Still not buying it. Several thousand Il-2s were lost in battle and I have watched 1950s USAF gun camera film of Sturmoviks bursting into flames and getting shot to pieces by .50 caliber guns, so I have doubts about your beliefs on the flak resistance of Il-2s.
Of course cherry-picking through anecdotal evidence isn't enough. You would need a lengthy scientific study (ORS investigation) to prove your case.