[Leo Etgen]

Hi guys

So as far as is known the mission was flown by B-25 twin-engined bombers of the 340th BG, USAAF escorted by P-38 twin-engined fighters of the 1 FG and 82nd FG, USAAF. The 82nd FG claimed two victories and lost one aircraft to Flak. For their part IV./JG 27 claimed 15 victories and lost no fighters. III./JG 27 did lose one aircraft that day but in a crash-landing with no mention of aerial combat:

15 November 1943: Gefreiter Heinrich Pothmann of 8./JG 27 in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 160 032), crash-landing at Tatoi, 90%

Does any one have which were the units on the American side that were involved in the raid two days later? On that day the two Luftwaffe fighter units claimed nine victories whereas one B-25 twin-engined bomber was lost. Stab III./JG 27 lost two mechanics:

17 November 1943: Gefreiter Manfred Kleinert of Stab III./JG 27 killed in bombing at Kalamaki
17 November 1943: Gefreiter Otto Heidel of Stab III./JG 27 wounded in bombing at Kalamaki

IV./JG 27 lost one fighter in aerial combat:

17 November 1943: Leutnant Hans Hetzler of 12./JG 27 wounded in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 140 ...) in aerial combat 20 kilometers east of Äjina Insel, 100%

Oberst, I think that the simplest explanation is over-claiming on the part of the German fighter pilots. Over-claiming was rather commonplace during the war in spite of the attempts by the various air forces involved to set in place confirmation procedures. In regards to the Luftwaffe, I have the impression that the level of claim reliability often varied between units and even individual pilots within the units. Units that appear to have levels of claiming generally consistent with Allied losses include JG 26 and JG 51 while units with often poor reliability in this regard include JG 54 and especially JG 5. Note that Bartels flew with JG 5 before he was posted to IV./JG 27 and that furthermore this was a quite new unit having been formed in May 1943 so it possibly did not have the same number of experienced pilots as other units such as III./JG 27. I doubt that this level of over-claiming on the part of Bartels and Kirschner was an act of deliberate fraud but rather was done in good faith as compared to those who doubtlessly will use this incident to attempt to portray all German aces as liars and exaggerators while remaining silent about incidents of Allied over-claiming such as during the Guadalcanal campaign. We all have our favorite aces but we have to realize that they were humans and not infallible in their victory claims which were often made in very stressful conditions.

Horrido!

Leo