[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

The EoE team investigation into the alleged photo of one of two Ju88s shot down in to the Firth of Forth on this 16.10.39 mission has now reached an unexpected conclusion. Ed North in his post in this thread suggested that the photo of a Ju88A being lifted by a salvage crane was not one of these aircraft, as has long been published, but, in fact could be 4D+AP which was lost with Oblt. Quadt, StaKap of 6./KG30 in Cresswell Bay, Northumberland, on March 29, 1940. That plane was known to have been salvaged. With help from Andy Saunders and Peter Cornwell, our EoE research team has concluded that Ed North is correct, and that this photo does show the 6 Staffel a/c being unloaded after salvage from Cresswell Bay shortly after the late-March crash, which was fatal to the crew. We don't know if the missing tail of this a/c was ever recovered. Peter has posted this photo above. He email about this photo: "It would be neat to identify the harbor where this salvaged Ju88 was photographed. Looks like a long breakwater in the background – Coquet ?"

I'm planning a color profile of this a/c representing a 6./KG30 Ju88A-1 for the Phoney War volume of the EoE book series. The only important thing lacking now is a W.Nr. for this a/c, which I'm convinced existed in some technical evaluation reports that would have been compiled at the time. Whether these reports still exist is unknown to our team. If anyone has discovered any technical reports on this aircraft, and hopefully any additional photography of it after salvage from the sea, I would very much appreciate hearing about it. We have all three K-Reports on the loss and recovery of this a/c from British Intelligence files, but we have no reports which might have been done as a result of a technical evaluation and study of this aircraft, which I believe was the first Ju88 to crash and be recovered off England, as opposed to the earlier losses on or adjacent to Scottish soil.

Now, back to the original problem, which is to locate and identify sufficient information to create a color profile for at least one of the three Ju88s that crashed while conducting operations near Scapa Flow and the Firth of Forth in mid-October, 1939. We know that the three Ju88s lost on October 16 and 17, 1939 were coded 4D+DH, 4D+AK and 4D+EK, and several prisoners were taken, including members from all three crews. Other than the K-Reports, which we have on all three, is anyone aware of any post war interviews or accounts published from any of the the air crewmen that were taken prisoner from these incidents? I think it very likely that all of the a/c that crashed had the early 4-bladed props. It also appears quite possible that at least the two aircraft that ditched in the Firth of Forth on 16 October were later salvaged from the sea and examined by British intelligence, which might give us W.Nrs. Does anyone have any evidence of that happening? Pohle's interrogation report indicates that he expected that that would happen.


These three losses on those two days, plus another crash-landing at Westerland on the 16th, we have recorded as:

"16. October 1939:

Stab I./KG30 Junkers Ju 88A-1. One engine damaged by AA fire and cockpit hood lost during attack on HMS Southampton in the Firth of Forth. Finally engaged by Blue Section of No. 602 Squadron (S/L A. McKellar, F/Lt G. Pinkerton, and F/O P. A. Webb) and ditched in the sea off Crail 2.45 p.m. (Ff) Hptmn Helmut Pohle (Gruppenkommandeur) rescued - badly injured face in landing. (Bs) Gefr August Schleicher rescued badly wounded - later died, (Bf) Uffz Kurt Naake killed, and (Beo) Fw Werner Weise missing. Aircraft 4D+AK 100% loss.

1./KG30 Junkers Ju 88A-1. Shot down by Green Section of No. 603 Squadron (S/L A. D. Farquhar, F/Lt A. V. R. Johnstone, and F/O P. J. Ferguson) and crashed in the sea 4 miles north of Port Seton following attack on HMS Southampton in the Firth of Forth 2.50 p.m. (Ff) Oberlt Siegmund Storp, (Beo) Oberfw Hugo Köhnke and (Bf) Oberfw Hans Hielscher all captured slightly injured, rescued by trawler Dayspring. (Bs) Obergefr Friedrich Krämer missing. Aircraft 4D+DH 100% loss.

1./KG30 Junkers Ju 88A-1. Shot down by Spitfires of ‘B’ Flight No.603 Squadron (F/L P. Gifford, F/O K. MacDonald, and F/O C. Robertson) and crashed in sea 4 miles north of Port Seton following attack on HMS Southampton in the Firth of Forth 2.55 p.m. Also engaged by elements of Yellow Section of No.602 Squadron. FF Oberlt Siegmund Storp (Staffelkapitän), BO Oberfw Hugo Köhnke, and BF Oberfw Hans-Georg Hielscher all captured slightly injured - rescued by trawler Dayspring, BS Obergefr Friedrich Krämer missing. Aircraft 4D+DH 100% write-off.

17 October 1939:

2./KG30 Junkers Ju88A-1. Suffered direct hit by AA fire during attack on British Fleet in Scapa Flow and exploded in Pegal Burn on the island of Hoy in the Orkney Islands 11.15 a.m. (Ff) Oberlt Walter Flämig, (Beo) Gefr Hans Attenberger, and (Bs) Uffz Rudi Faust killed. (Bf) Uffz Fritz Ambrosius baled out and captured badly wounded and burned. Aircraft 4D+EK 100% write-off.
Remains of this aircraft, the first to crash on mainland Great Britain, and three of its crew were scattered across an area of a quarter mile. They are buried at Lyness as Unknown Airmen."

I have Henry Buckton's book, "Birth of the Few," which recreates the October 16th mission in considerable detail. Can it be relied upon for accuracy? No photos from the German side, however. Pohle and Storp, down on the 16th, provided only general information of their experiences on the mission during their subsequent interrogations. Uffz Ambrosius was the subject of a 19-page intel debriefing report, so his experiences on the 17 October mission are very well covered,

I'd like to do a color profile of Pohle's a/c, and for that I still need a photo of a 2./KG30 Ju88A-1 from the fall of 1939 showing a full a/c code on the fuselage and/or underwing and top wing coding styles. Can anyone point me towards any appropriate photography, preferably showing a plane with 4-bladed prop? I already have the photo of the 2 Staffel Ju88 with the destroyed nose from a ground collision at Westerland on Oct 21st, but this shows only the cockpit area and front of the a/c.

Thanks to all of you for your help so far.

Regards,