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Re: German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...
Johannes,
I have some hard times understanding what you are trying to say on here . I think most of the historians don't consider Hartmann or other Luftwaffe pilots claims as fraudulent neither those from Axis , Russia etc.
Needless to mention that this issue is a real boring one and an over discussed topic which can last forever and ever.
In 80% of the cases such victories of the Axis and Allied Expeditionary Forces were homologated in the late aftermath of WWII. My area of research is the Romanian ,Bessarabia, Moldavia and Ukrainian fronts
period 1941 - 1943 - 1944. Comparing the US & Russian records versus German from their their history books & records .I was able to come up with the conclusions that most of the claims were not accurate many of them totally
inexistent some which were achieved in group then later on individually claimed by oher pilots.
In addition to the available history books,records and archival material on JG 4 ,JG's 51, 52, LG-2 , JG-77, JG-3, JG-53 some pilots wrote own memoirs and books, both from Axis and Allied side, these memoirs too are not 100 %
accurate some even bear doubtful historical records.
As example Mr Prien's records Volume 2 & 4 many of the victories don't match the Russian records neither Russian records fit those of the Luftwaffe , as such and regretfully his great work is by now outdated.
Another example is "Sturmjaeger" of E.Mombeck Band 1, some of the claims of the Luftwaffe pilots during the low Level Raid were also claimed by Romanian pilots and vice versa. On various Russian publications
on Pokrishkin, Koshedub, Retchkalov , Evstigneev, Gulyaev, etc once again many of their claims don't fit the German claims and vice versa ( I read & speak Russian ,German,Romanian etc ) .....
Willi Batz memoirs " Vom Fluglehrer zum Schwertertraeger " is another example of such errors ......a book which historically disappointing lots .
On the various history books and pilot's memoires of 1st FG, 14th FG, 31st FG, 82nd, 325th and 332nd on the Romanian front, same errors versus those of the Luftwaffe & Romanian side are obvious .
Not included on this are the historical records of of 9th (1943) & 15th Air Forces Bomber Groups , RAF 205th GP and those of the Soviets and Luftwaffe BG's in 1944 .... are too subject
to many errors sometimes totally fictious ! Too bad computer age reached us too late .
Long after war's end aerial victories had to be revised and so the various publications written on Hartmann and on all Axis and Allied pilots.
Therefore one should exercise caution when putting such claims into records . One last thing, during his life time I’ve met Erich several times mainly due proximity of our locations.
You will be comforted to know that even he described WWII and his victories as not accurate not on purpose to mislead the people back at home but as a result of the existing logistics,
war doctrine and competition between pilots toward awards and personal benefits. We can endlessly go on and on with this topic , you or other readers don't have to agree , these are facts.
Hope that helps
PS : the shot of Erich's bust posted on the Russian site was mine
Last edited by researcher111; 27th January 2014 at 15:19.
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