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Old 11th February 2014, 02:18
HGabor HGabor is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,221
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Re: German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

I have already told earlier that matching pilots has never been the centre of my research. To find false claims, we would need to go through every single German-Hungarian claim. I have no time for this and I am not planning it. However, eg. I recall a La-7 claim from Tóth Lajos on March 9, 1945, which cannot be verified from soviet sources, even if it was verified by a witness from his own flight. It was a high altitude dogfight and the falling plane probably did not crash, but recovered near ground level and returned home.

But I also found REAL VICTORIES, which have never been approved, - two of them have never been reported! Sure, false claims are more frequent than these rare cases. But for instance, I found two more victories for Hungary's top scoring ace, Szentgyörgyi Dezső. So far he was credited 33 victories and I found two more for him. (Certainly all the previous claims still should be verified.)

For instance, on March 20, 1945 he downed a La-7. But until the new soviet documents, nobody knew, that this downed La-7 -while pulling into the clouds-, in the next few seconds collided with his wingman and as a result, BOTH 5 VA, 179 GvIAP La-7s (S/N: 45210501 and 45210353) crashed - some time apart!
Both pilots bailed out and laded safely, therefore they are not listed in the regiment's personnel losses. (OBD)

What to say now? Szentgyörgyi saw, reported and then got credited for only one La-7, but now from the new documents we know, that due to his action two La-7s failed to return from their mission! Interesting, isn't it?

History is sometimes much more complicated than we think. And I think this is just the tip of the iceberg...... I am sure much more interesting things will be found along this fascinating road...
Cheers,

Gabor

Last edited by HGabor; 11th February 2014 at 03:33.
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