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Old 12th February 2014, 12:42
HGabor HGabor is offline
Alter Hase
 
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Re: German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

Folks,

here is Peter Düttmann's list for Hungary from JG 52. Sorry to say, but this is also an "Eric Hartmann category", - or even much worse. Especially his "series of five IL-2s" on March 16, 1945 is absolutely ridiculous... I tried to be nice to him and "granted" a credit, if his claim was in a half an hour range with the soviet reports, if otherwise the other details (area, AC type, or at least the manufacturer) matched:


01/11/1944 Jak-9 - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged
01/11/1944 Jak-9 - Yak-1B, S/N: 08175, 5 VA, 6 GvIAD, 73 GvIAP, gv.l-t Andrianov (POW)
01/11/1944 Jak-9 - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged
01/11/1944 Jak-9 - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged
07/11/1944 Jak-9 - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged - one loss, but reported time is 4 hrs. late for it!!!! Impossible.
13/11/1944 Jak-11 - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, reported time is 1-2 hrs. wrong!
13/11/1944 Jak-11 - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, reported time is 1-2 hrs. wrong!
13/11/1944 Il-2mH. - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, closest reported hr. is 1.5 hrs. apart!
08/03/1945 Jak-3 - Yak-3, S/N: 310099, 17 VA, 288 IAD, 866 IAP, ml.l-t Yablochkin, KIA
08/03/1945 Jak-3 - Found no permanent loss, probably just another (damaged) 866 IAP - Yak-3 from the same flight.
09/03/1945 La-5 - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged
09/03/1945 Il-2mH. - IL-2m3, S/N: 11610, 17 VA, 136 ShAD, 210 ShAP, ml.l-t Indyushkin - Krasilnikov crew KIA
11/03/1945 Jak-9 - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, reported hr. is too late!
11/03/1945 Jak-9 - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, reported hr. is too late!
11/03/1945 Jak-9 - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, reported hr. is too late!
14/03/1945 Boston - A-20G-40-DO, S/N: 43-21519, R-2600-23 engines: 43-105954 and 43-105698 at Pálinkaházpuszta, Seregélyes-SW, 17 VA, 244 BAD, 861 BAP (l-t Bahvalov - l-t Mayorov - c-a Zolotov - e-p Solianik crew, all 4 KIA. This soviet Boston has been found, recovered and identified by a nice data-plate just a few years ago. Plane exploded still in the air and remains covered the fields below. Flight of sixteen 17 VA, 861 BAP A-20 Bostons with the cover of only 2 (!) Yaks...) See: attached pic. below.
16/03/1945 Il-2mH. - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, probably from the formation of the 989 ShAP.
16/03/1945 Il-2mH. - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, probably from the formation of the 989 ShAP.
16/03/1945 Il-2mH. - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, probably from the formation of the 989 ShAP.
16/03/1945 Il-2mH. - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, probably from the formation of the 989 ShAP.
16/03/1945 Il-2mH. - IL-2m3, S/N: 18874124, 17 VA, 136 ShAD, 989 ShAP - ml.l-t Zaharov (WIA) - Iashin (WIA) crew.
18/03/1945 Jak-3 - No idea. Potential victory, but lack of info. 3 Yak losses this day.
19/03/1945 Il-2mH. - Found no permanent loss at 11:52, probably just damaged. Many IL-2 losses this day, but all with 2-3 hrs. difference!
19/03/1945 Jak-3 - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged
19/03/1945 La-5 - La-5FN, S/N: 39211166, 17 VA, 295 IAD, 116 IAP, ml.l-t Ozhiganov (MIA)
20/03/1945 P-51 - Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged.

Gabor

Last edited by HGabor; 26th September 2015 at 17:17.
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