[Franek Grabowski]

Jens

Sorry, but i find your arguments a litlle bit biased, since you not only doubt russians figures (what is reasonable from other experiences), but german statements.

I have reasons to doubt German statements, this based on some accounts that I was able to verify. I can also mention some statements of Galland that were discussed on this board previously.

I can't remember to read anywhere, that russians data claims were over. Pls show me that sources.

Pardon, I am not sure if I understand you.

Rall made clear in his book, that his statement is for those, who think russians weren't able to build well planes. If you keep in mind that most dofights at eastern front were mostly under 4000m and you take both sides official numbers in aspect, you 'll see he is right. maybe 10-15kph didn't play that great role and also maybe nominal perfomance was more important.

Rall ended his Eastern Front career in the early 1944, when Yak-3 and Yak -9U were not available. Most common was Yak-1 which had speed limit of 650 km/h. Rall's story does not sound very reliable to me, unless he was in a very infavourable position.

Barkhorn statement is also founded by Walter Wolfrun: "The best Fighters in combat I met were P-51 Mustang and Yak-9U. Both of these types obviously exceeded all Bf109 variants in perfomance, including th "K"."
Barkhorn knew russians planes very good and was commander of a fightersquadron at eastern front. Yak-9U was introduced in 10/44 at northern front.

I stand by my comment - numbers of Yak-9U available were quite limited. Bock states that the first kill on a Yak-9U was achieved on 30.04.1945 (42 GIAP). Perhaps our Russian friends can comment this info, nonetheless I do not think Bock did a significant error if any.

Schwabedissen wrote studies about eastern airwar for USAF. The americans had no doubt about this, due their own experiences in Korea. The fighterbombermissions were flown by NN in 1944/45 like Schwabedissen stated.

This is actually a question to our French friends - were French Yaks capable of bombload? Personally I do not think so.

some La-7 test of the -39 is here: http://www.btinternet.com/~fulltilt/...l#No.452101-39
the other number isn't really comparable to other la-7 numbers.

I have a full report in Russian. This is only a small bit of it.

Factory data of La-7 seemed to be reached with polished skin and so on, which i think was more or less normal for german tests.

The report discusses this issue. Several reasons mentioned, including extra drag from radio mast, not installed on the prototype.

Christer

- I think it may be quite simple: He or some other German guy flew a captured Yak-9U to test it against German fighters. Otherwise, I agree with Franek. As Grislawski said: “Yak, LaGG, MiG - whatever, sometimes we couldn’t tell.”

I do not think Germans captured any flyable Yak-9U and I doubt they were awared of any particular designations. I believe it is a post war interpretation.

- Here we apparently have two conflicting statements. The question is which one you find surprising - Rall’s or Chromy’s? Who had the largest amount of experience? From which tactical positions did Chromy encounter his “German enemies”? When did he usually encounter them? If he encountered German “free hunters” over Soviet territory immediately after he had taken off himself, he would have a Yak fighter with filled fuel tanks - adding quite some weight to the little fighter - against German fighters with maybe only half filled tanks (thus with less relative weight), and maybe also an altitude superiority.

It was a common knowledge at the time, the thing pilots were learned before entering the combat. See also a reply to Jens.

- I got the impression that:
a) Grislawski didn’t always enjoy the privilege of being able to choose the tactical position in the air combats;
b) Grislawski was such a damned good pilot that he knew how to take his Bf 109 to the end, even out-turning enemy fighters which when equally compared were more maneuverable. Although one German pilot described entering a turning combat with P-40s as “tantamount to suicide” (or something similar), Marseille frequently challenged P-40s in turning fights. I think he knew what he was doing. Another extremely skilful “turn fighter” on the Bf 109 was Max-Hellmuth Ostermann, who learned how to out-turn even I-16s. See my forthcoming biography on Ostermann. . .

Point a is valid but only partially. Grislawski should keep an altitude advantage which favoured his aircraft. Of course I can imagine he sometimes was taking the risk but it was his error of judgement.
Point b - of course skilled pilot is able to do miracles and use some tricks like full throttle flying on high angles of attack. Otherwise I would be rather sceptical in such claims. One or two such combats may turn into a ordinary deed by power of a gossip. Combat reports are necessary. Not to forgotten is a quality of an opposing pilot of course - a very important factor.

- I think that what Jens refers to here is the book “The Russian Air Force in the Eyes of German Commanders” (USAF Historical Division, Air University 1960), where Schwabedissen simply lines up statements made by various German commanders (including air unit commanders). Schwabedissen makes only few own statements.

See my reply to Jens.

It always is interesting to listen to the veterans when they speak of what the have experienced themselves. Realities at the frontlines were much different than test results in calm conditions.

Yes, but often veterans tend to 'colourise' their stories. I always try to verify their statements with combat reports etc.

A single combat - like the one between Yaks and Lightnings - definitely is of very little value when it comes to making an assessment of how these aircraft compared to each other.

It is just a sample, nonetheless I find it interesting because it is coming from an official document from the period. No further details are known and I cannot exclude it was a high speed combat in which Lightnings could use power advantage.

I can give you examples of I-16s or PZL P.11s beating up Bf 109 Es or Fs, but surely no one would be able to come up with an overall test result that would indicate that the I-16 or the PZL P.11 could be regarded as generally superior to the Bf 109 E or F.

Indeed. More, if 109 is downed in such a combat, I would consider it almost exclusively an error of a German pilot.

PS A very recommended reading!
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/englis...es/golodnikov/