[Johannes]

Hi Nick

You ask "who claimed worse than that", well there were certain Geschwader where it was endemic JG2 and JG 5 spring to mind, though in reality not everybody within this situation would do such things i.e they had the opportunity, but were basically honest guys.

Other Geschwader had maybe just a Gruppe where it was endemic, sometimes just a staffel. Therefore a pilot might make fake claims for long periods, until a change in company, or transfer elsewhere. Usually the fake claims would be over a short period where a group of guys were working a fiddle, or a Kommandeur with a personal wingman, if fact a huge number of claims in a short period in my opinion is very suspicious i.e Rudorffer, Nowotny, Lang, Stotz, Hans Hahn e.t.c.

I don't have the Russian losses, just Luftwaffe claims, but we a assured by Russian losses experts of the facts, usually the worst offenders were those in the hunt for the Brillianten.....those who were the leaders with totals. Nowotny we are informed was probably the worst offender, he used his schwarm of Anton Dobele, Gerhard Loos and Karl Schnorrer. Rudorffer used his personal wingman Kurt Tangermann, Hans Hahn used Max Stotz, Emil Lang used Reinhold Hoffmann, most of these "helpers" were rewarded with a Ritterkreuz, most did not live to tell any tales.

But we are informed of others who made fake claims that I just cannot link with any helpers Wilhelm Batz springs to mind, and for the greater period Hartmann himself.

So do we actually believe the Russian losses people who accuse these guys. Well we know that Stalin covered-up Russian losses, so perhaps these Russian losses experts don't have the full picture, but that aside, these same guys give many other top luftwaffe aces the thumbs up, like Helmut Lipfert, which would suggest that yes there was something going on.

My good friend Bernd Barbas believes that because the claims system was so stringent that it was impossible to "over-claim", but in my opinion it doesn't take into account human nature.......we are not all honest, and a did-honest group of guys could do it, and once the paperwork is done, well the stringent system must make it fact. It's a bit like the totals of pilots, we believed it because is was repeatedly told to be so i.e Woidich's 110, still don't know where this total came from, even Woidich himself had a abschüßelist with just eighty-two, and may not even known about the 110, other less honest guys could have self proclaimed a higher figure than the truth.

There is the other-side to argue that "they thought the enemy had crashed", now Marseille was a huge egoist, yet he was honest, the fact that he was honest is actually a surprise, his pattern of claiming I find suspicious, but he was honest, the "thought they had crashed" probably well answers this, his wingmen stated "it was a full-time job keeping-up with him, and marking the crash-sites", I suspect that these wingman didn't follow protocol and didn't see some of the actual crashes, not by laziness, but it was just beyond their abilities to keep-up flying with Marseille, and record his claims.

Nowotny was in competition with Günther Rall, no matter what Rall would claim in a legitimate way, Nowotny would claim more.....because he just could, and because of his company Nowotny "just could" for the period covering the majority of his claims.

Kind Regards

Johannes