[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by Marius

On the 5th Sept.:
3./KG 2 shot down Okrzeja at appr. 13.30 hours at Wyszkow. You surely know where his graveyard is (Kregi Stare at Wyszkow).
IV./LG 1 flew a sortie between 12.31-14.10 with escort of I./ZG 1. Kpt.Opulski`s account agrees completely with German records and with the document of Pursuit Brigade. Therefore I accept it as the best of all memories written by Polish pilots about this particular mission. It doesn`t matter that it was published in older Pawlak`s book.
According to IPMS, Lot.AII.11/1d-11 the III dyon had one engagement with the enemy. The document does not differe both engagements, but surely means that only one unit - the 112th eskadra - fought against the enemy (as described in the document).
There is nothing about the 111 eskadra. Sorry for that.

You reffer only to the published documents and you do not even know when they were filed. Sorry, how can you make a source's critique? Not to mention that Mr Cynk included only a fraction of available documents, simply of practical reasons.

I could write many pages about mistakes and manipulations done by Mr. Cynk. But the fact that in his ignorance he decided to disregard German records completely as some Polish publishers tried to build up an outstanding work (for the first time ever) shows us the way this autor works. The only useful things in his book "Polskie lotnictwo mysliwskie..." are the original Polish documents.

Here you go into a personal attack on Mr Cynk, who cannot defend himself here. As yet nobody has proven him any manipulations, quite contrary to your writing. To be fair, you should add that it was you, who had to write the German part for his book. It is quite a difference if you write that Mr Cynk refused to include German data and if he refused to cooperate with you. The book of Mr Cynk is excellent and very ballanced Polish view of Polish fighter aviation in the Polish Campaign. Nothing less, nothing more.

A hit by own A.A. is not a collision, right?

How about a hit by A.A. resulting in collision?

Please quote these documents. I hope you will find them.
Please quote these documents. I hope you will find them also.

Everything at a proper time. At the moment I am working on another subject and I canot retract from it. Nonetheless I may assure you I will return to this particular subject as well.

IPMS, Lot.AII.15/1b-11. You better should find it and not just ignore it.

I think you ignore importance of the document, I just cannot find original copy. It is original document filed on 4.09.1939. The question is, when the note about Me 110s was added. As you noted other documents do not mention Me 110s, so it is possible it was a comment added in November 1939. Possibly even earlier, as Rolski certainly could learn about Me 110, even from pilots of Brygada Pościgowa.

For sure Skalski and Rolski. But that`s not the point. At the end you will find Do 17`s, Ju 87`s, Me 109`s and Me 110`s. Maybe you will even find some Me 262`s.

Sarcasm that missed the point. It is hard to consider two being many, and it is surprising you are so easily giving faith to accounts written years later!

Pniak repoprted "two engined aircraft" from a distance of appr. 2 000 meters and before he ever started! He then fought against these aircraft and was credited with a ... Ju 87! So he claimed a two engined Ju 87.

By whom, when and where? As far as I can decipher, original entry in the diary of the unit did mention credit for Do 17 that was later corrected (by Rolski?) to Ju 87, and the combat report filed just after the combat clearly mention two engined aircraft. I do not care, they might have been He 111s, but I am certain they were not Ju 87s.

Nonetheless I never heard about sections of 3 attacking Bf 110`s. These only could be sections of Ju 87`s.

I believe you have not heard of sections of three of Me 109s, so what?

No German record is stating about fightings between I./ZG 1 and Polish fighters on this day. Even Prof.Trenel who had masses of German documents during the war wrote about 3 PZL shot down and 2 forced to land. This agrees with survived German records. 3 PZL claims by 1.(J)/LG 2 and 2 force landings claimed by III./StG 2.

Was not the study of Trenel written post-war for USAAF intelligence? Anyway, it is a very simple story of the Polish Campaign, and it cannot be considered definite. I know, I have read it.

Joint formations of Me 109/Me 110 did not fly any single mission for one bomber formation (strenght 9 - 30 aircraft) in Poland 1939. I am very sorry that you do not know that.

If so, the second formation must have been escorted by Me 110 and this exclude participation of LG2's Me 109s - see original Pniak report.