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Old 2nd December 2023, 02:28
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Re: Walter Schuck´s and Franz Dörr´s first unconfirmed victories

Hi
There is a difference between officially created documents and memories. Not that memories should be plainly rejected, but they must be tested as to their reliability. Some are very credible and some a work of fiction. Still, one may got surprised. Quite recently, I was going through a generally unreliable memories. There was described an event that could not have been corroborated by available documents and I considered it a fantasy of the author. Still, I was able to find another memories, corroborated by documents, which allowed to confirm the event. I cannot explain the gap in documents.

Regarding Kirchmayr, it seems that his memories are reliable. The combat on 15.10.41 has been discussed on the forum, so you can check information there.
The general problem with the Allied victories is that nobody did a proper scrutiny, and the German records are nearly non-existent. It is much easier to assess Allied scores in the Battle of Britain, where despite numbers of aircraft involved, there is a fair collection of combat reports, and there is a pretty good record of losses of both sides,at least on land as there is evidence of some unrecorded German losses or inaccurate information on those lost in sea or in France. For the German victories in the same period it is nearly impossible to attempt a verification, as there is no complete set providing such essential data like time and place, not to mention any reports or accounts.
Nonetheless if you move forward, especially into 1941-42 period, the information about losses of both sides become vague at times. Certainly, the recent release of Casualty Reports do allow for some corrections, but certainly are not exhaustive. Nonetheless, at least in numbers there are no gaps, except perhaps some slightly damaged aircraft. As for Germans, well, almost nothing. So, we most often do not know what unit was engaged, and certainly some Allied reports must raise an eyebrow, like a mention of a Me 109 downed by own Flakship and not claimed by Allies. Still the loss is not reflected in available documents. A researcher's nightmare.
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