[Adriano Baumgartner]

Hi Frank, Simpson and Steve. Thank you for your kind answer and valuable help. Yes, like one of you put correctly, there are many clues that we had to find out before matching this kind of comparison losses versus claims ( to get an overall picture of an air combat that occurred some 63 years ago…).
You helped me in many ways. Firstly I was nearly certain that the Mustangs that had faced JG 6 that day were from the RAF.
From the information available I pictured 3 main combats that day ( as all of you had already figured out, of course ):
1- III/ JG 26 met and fought P-51 between 14:40-14:58h
2- II/JG 6 met Mustangs between 16:35-17:00h
3- I and II/ JG 26 fought P-51 and Spitfires between 17:51-18:08h

There is no doubt that III/ JG 26 led by Major Mietusch found and fought 361st FG. But the problems start to arise there: 361st only claimed one Bf 109 and had one loss! Did 4th FG joined the “fray” after their escort mission was finished ( did they made a sort of free hunt )? There were 3 claims submitted by 4th FG pilots ( Capt. Louis H. Norley; 1/Lt Ted E Lines – a 10 kills ace; 2/Lt Albert J Davis – all from 335th F.S. ). It is bizarre, but the actual report on the loss of Lt. Woodrow W. Glover of 335th FS mentions him being hit by Flak and crashing at 15:30hs. There is no match for his loss on Luftwaffe records – nearly one hour after the combat started at 14:40h…On the other hand, 4th FG lost one pilot, Lt. Clifford E Holske at 14:40h near Vardingholt, to the East of Borken/ Bocholt area - and the time matches the claims submitted by Leutnant Wilhelm Hoffmann of .8/ JG 26. So it is very probable that III/ JG 26 met 4th FG and 361st FG.

It is VERY PROBABLE also that several Groups of Mustangs fought III/ JG 26 that early afternoon. Do you know of any other claims submitted by 8th AF Fighter Groups?

By the way: I know that there was a difference between English and German time. But was this still being utilized here, on September 1944, when the vast majority of Fighter Squadrons were operating from airfields in liberated Europe ( France, Belgium )?

THE ONLY Combat that find a match on both sides is this that which involves JG 6 and 19 Squadron. Both reports mentions a combat around 17:00h.
Uffz. Heinberger from 6/JG 6 got a Mustang near Emmerich between 16:45-17:00h

Uffz. Känner from 7/JG 6 got another Mustang near Helmond – a town some 18km to the East of Eindhoven, between 16:35-45.

From those two claims, it seems that the three Staffelns of JG 6 were sent to three separate Areas of Patrol. JG 6 AS FAR AS I KNOW lost only the machine of Oblt. Werner Uhlig, Staffelkapitan of 5 Staffel. Strangely he crashed or was shot down near Koln ( Cologne – the big town on the Ruhr; which seems very very far away from the combat Area of Eindhoven – if this was the 5th Staffel patrol area that day or Emmerich, much more to the north ).

19 Squadron claimed one kill for one loss, which is far close to the losses and records of JG 6 than to those of JG 26.

Frank, do you or one of you have MORE information about Mustangs of 65 Squadron? How many aircraft were dispatched? How many claims and losses they submitted and suffered? Could someone figure out this for us? I tried to find on the net but was unsuccessful. I also did not find combat claims or losses on 602 Squadron records. But will keep going on my researches.

I found very strange the loss of Oblt Uhlig near Koln…it is very very far away. He could have being followed or wounded on an early action until he crashed…Will have to check out more precisely.

Glad to all of you and please excuse me for the delay in answering. I was obtaining some MAPS of Europe to check out ALL the claims and losses of JG 26, JG 6, 19 Squadron. It took me some days to get an overall picture of what happened and get the maps printed properly.

We will certainly keep in touch gentlemen. One more time I thank you for the valuable help and the kind attention in answering. Yours very friendly

Adriano