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Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski
To this should be added losses in Poland (1939), Finland (1939/40), Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Rumania (1940). 'Freedom of Motherland' resulted in nearly 50 years of enslavement and dosens of thousands of losses in Soviet occupied countries. Let's have that in mind as well.
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Franek. You really think that those 50 years was worse than nazi occupation during 5 years?
I am PROUD that my both granfathers fought FOR THEYR SOVIET Motherland. SOVIET because it was the only choise. The other choise was to trait and go to serve to germans, as Vlasov. All traitors were shot, without any judge. And I SURE it was 100% right.
What You propose to our soldiers - to give up? Do You really understand what result would be? Or You forgot what germans did in Poland in 1939-44? Does SOVIETS made Konzlags?
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Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski
Soviets cant…. Sovets were not able… Sovets failed…Soviets flew unprotected…Soviets suffered losses… Soviets tried to enslave…
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After that words I look forward for Your phrase – “Soviets were unhumen”… It may be thing that You dot like and never agree, but Soviets were those who faced the strongest army in Europe and destroyed it, finishing the war in Berlin.
I will tell You a little offtopic story.
Both of my grangrandfathers fought against nazi.
My grangrandfather went in army in middle 1942, and was encircled 3 times untill he reached Stalingrad in august 1942. When he moved through german held territory, he found a village. This I remember when he told me in 1995, just before he passed away. He sayd: there were ~50 houses, most of them in flames, but no even 1 alive human. “There were old men, looking like meat loaf because they were kicked by boots to death. Raped women without cloth. There I saw a first time "butterbroads". What is it, You ask? Imagine 2 children, lie one over second, face to face. German soldier shoot in the head from rifle and 1 bullet killes two.”
With the average life of soldier in Stalingrad was 1 (ONE) day, he fought ther from august to october (when he was chell-shoked by near explosion of bomb dropped from it is believed Bf110 – causing him very very serious wonds), 2 weeks of this period he fought encircled on a house with 8 his sildiers, almost without any food/ammunition/water. And even when he saw replyes “What do the hell we fight for that communism?” – He always ask. “We have no choise. Or live with communism, or die as german slave. I don’t care about Party, but I see burned house of my family”.
Note that his village lost 4/5 of all people, died from hunger in Golodomor in mid 30-th, including his mother. People boiled GRASS and SHOES SKIN to eat. Kommisars took all grain and almost all food from them.
My second grangrandfather fought in the anty-tank artillery. As far as You may know, it suffered the worst losses among all (even infantry’s losses were MUCH lower). As Kapitan, he served from 1941 to 1944, and MiA in eastern Belorussia in march 1944. The last his packet contained 7 factory badges of tanks he did scored and the last letter. His division general showed really Communism face. His words to my grangrandfather were: “You are going to be HSU? I am Your general, and any of mine soldiers will not receive it untill I will have MINE HSU. Now, You battery is the only unit who will face this counteroffensive. Go and show how brave and smart You are, mo##on.”. He was just simply sent to death as cannon fodder.
It was the fact of our history, and we cant change it now.
I know what “Commyes” did to Poland in 1939. To Finnland in TWO agressions. I feel very sad and puty about that crimes.
How many Polish, Finns, Romanians were killed or suffered by Communists agression? You may know it better than me. Was ot totally of 1/10, 1/100 of all who suffered from Communism?
But Do YOU know, how many MILLIONS of citizens were killed during Civil War in 20th?
Do You know how many MILLIONS of lifes TWO Golodomors took? Family of my grangrandfather suffered heavy of hunger during 2nd Golodomor, they boiled grass and bootskin to eat. More than a half population of citizens of his village died from hunger.
Do You know how many MILLIONS of citizens were tortured by and shot during 1930th?
Do You know how many MILLIONS payed their life for stupidity of Stalins gemerals in WW II? 20 millins? 30 millions? 40 millions? We will never know. Belorussia had 8 millons of population before the war. 2 millions were alive after…
Each 4th survived of whole country.
Do You know, how many MILLIONS of victims Stalin took untill his death?
Beside HUMAN losses, communism made many, many other strikts. Cultural. Moral. Science. All suffered heavy.
But PLEASE – LET US, EX-SOVIETS, EX-USSRIANS, JUDGE THE STALINS REGIME, THE COMMUNISM. WE are those who suffered the hardest price. All eastern Europe didnt saw even 1/100 of all that kommunism did.
Look on Nazi regime. I even don’t dare to score the crimes. But I have no RIGHTS to judge it. Germans have it the only.
Fascism in Italy. The most suffered were ITALIANS, not all who were around. Let ONLY Italians judge the Mussolini.
Franko…
Ustaska…
I even don’t speak about Asia. I even cant imagine WHAT really Japaneese did with Chineese…
As a virtual pilot, I have lots of friends (also virtual pilots) both in Poland (from Polish virtual fighters squadrons) and in Finnland (from various LeLv’s). And theyr opinion mainly simular with mine. Yes, shit happened, but that was hard time of totalitarism for whole Europe and not only theyr countryes suffered. NOWDAY we cant change something with it.
You would better judge Pilsudsky, ok? You better read about war in 1920. You will find about Polish invasion and occupation of Western Ukraina and Belorussia.
And the last - all Soviet-Polish wars were VENGENCE for 1612, You mist know it. That was THE EDGE, and if not Minin and Pozharsky - Poland could have a border with USA, China now, and Pacific ocean shore as eastern borders. I even dont say what would be the fate of russian - so many "mercy" polish showed to ukrainians, belorussians, russians in 1612. You would better think about sorry for that, because POLISH was going to enslave and destroy WHOLE nation. Better go and think about it.
But we must remember it, to don’t let simular mistakes of goverments appear in future. WAR is always the tragedy for humanity, and does no matter what the objectives are pursued by sides involved.
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Bottom line for me. We have enoght nazi in goverments of Ukraina, Georgia, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia nowdays, who hail traitiors as a heroes.