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Old 29th May 2005, 09:52
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Ruy Horta Ruy Horta is offline
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Re: Some Thoughts On “Data Mining”

Jeff,

There are two issues.

Data mining, that is asking (numerous) questions, but never giving anything in return to the community, not even the reason behind the questions. This is what John Beaman is writing about.

Trolling, the (suspected) attempt at disturbing the forum, through many different means (see http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=1477).

When we address the issue of "data mining" we are thinking of both sides, including the one who seeks data. Personally I'd be more tempted to help someone who's active and supplies information to others as well, (especially myself) than someone who only takes.

This issue often pops up with book tips.

Question: Please state the Luftwaffe Losses over Britain in Sept. 1940
Answer: Buy The Battle of Britain then and Now (or something similar)

How often is such a tip seen as a sneer?

Far too often I tell you.

When you need answers, show that you've made an effort finding them. The internet is a big place, but tools like Google make it relativly easy to find relevant sites. There are librabries, bookstores and archives all connected to the internet. If you look upon finding answers in that way you can actually get pretty far...

(IMHO the best way to expand your knowledge base is to check the bibliography and notes you'll find in better books, it pretty much forms a steady foundation from where to start your search for knowledge - I follow this reasoning myself - to the detriment of my wallet.)

The whole issue changes when you share knowledge, if you bring in some spare change people are much more likely to help you fill in gaps if you are known to do the same for them or at least within the community.

This forum requires that you've made some effort before typing down that question, if that is too much, than yes this should not be the forum for you.

However if you are willing to put some effort behind your thought and be an active member of this community (not through the number of posts, but the amount of data, information or help), you'll have a much better experience.

Last but not least on this issue.

We are fortunate that a number of authors and historians have joined this community, so it really pays off if you put an effort behind your posts and treat other members with respect.

Yes, you have an easy opportunity to attack these people, but in the end you'll only scare away the main knowledge base of this community. Whereas some kid of 16 can pretend to hold answers, the one answering him may have been (seriously) studying the subject for 30 odd years.

Is this an elitist view?

No, I say it is a practical one.

You want authorative answers, you will have to work at it, including treating the right people with proper respect.

Now to our next subject of Trolls.

I'll keep it short, but you'll notice that respect is something that I hold dear.

Basically a Troll does not respect the community he's attacking, he sees the people within it as part of his ammusement. So if you make an effort by typing a reaction, he's only laughing about the time you must have spent working on it. Seldom will they enter the discussion by means of acknowledgement, more likely they'll start more threads. The Troll is at his worst when he is actively trying to forment discontent within the community. When he tries to find a trigger that will start a flame war. Again his only aim is to see community members arguing with eachother and wasting energy on his little game.

The ultimate aim is to break apart the community, the essence of any forum.

A real troll is dangererous, but there are many who exhibit troll behavior.

In this case I'll take caution over laissez-faire, if I expect you to be a Troll, you'll notice soon enough. Only if I have real doubt will you get a warning.

The best way to find Trolls is to ignore those who you suspect.

Let me repeat.

A Troll offends the whole community.
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Ruy Horta
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